Having just followed the funeral of Lee Rigby is it enough that the killers only get life? Should those that take the life of someone prepared to lay their life on the line for both Queen and Country expect harsher penalties?
Without trawling throughout all of SFN, I don't know a discussion is happening until I get a 'Worth a read' notification.
I do try to spend some of my days NOT on a computer but, rather, doing some of the interminable renovations that us ex-pats are famed for.
Or picknicking on the beach.
Also arriving late to the dinner party (How come these discussions don’t pop into my eMails eleven pages earlier?) so, only having skimmed the replies, but leaping in head first anyway, I’d like to add my two-pennorth:
My view on justice and ‘punishment’ is based upon what my granny always emphasised: “Two ‘wrongs’ do not make a ‘right’.” Therefore, as a society of reasonably well behaved folk who have elected to abide by a set of laws, we have the right, by majority, to keep dangerous and anti-social people away from the rest of us and, as much as we may feel like wreaking vengeance upon those who do despicable deeds, two ‘wrongs’ do not make a ‘right’, therefore, it stands to reason that we can put them where they can do no more harm but to actually ‘punish’ is, surely, just another ‘wrong’...
More effort put into re-education perhaps...?
No idea what the answer is....but its a conundrum and an area that could be vastly improved, so it requires a lot of thinking outside the envelope. Accepting a flawed system isnt acceptable...and I am sure we would all be howling if we felt we were badly done by in a court.
Carol,
I can partly agree but ask what would we set up instead? Aren’t our Magistrates drawn from “normal people”? And they still make some howlers.
Some have been revisited Martin...usually when there has been a fuss or kerfuffle and there were red faces so a retrial was required (Stuart Hall comes to mind at the moment). But we shouldn't have ancient out of touch judges on the bench in the first place. They have no connection with the real world...and in some instances because of their upbringing, never have had.
How many judges are from backgrounds that are not privileged? Whilst there are juries involved all well and good (though as I previously mentioned a lot have their own discrimination issues) but judges decide the sentence, so need to be in touch with reality.
Carol,
You’re correct, of course, apropos the light sentences. However, after the deep intake of breath in the Court, several have been revisited by the SPJ.
David,
You must be hoot in pub competitions. Your obviously well read and knowledgeable. I, however, can only say what I witnessed on the ground.
We could go further back and question Bomber Harris and Winston. But let’s leave the suicide bombers, religious soldiers, fanatics and crazed leaders as they are misunderstood.
Oh dear Martin here we go with the Nuremberg defence. In the first Gulf War the forces of the US and its allies decided to force their old chum Saddam Hussein out of a region which had once been part of Mesopotamia and the Kuwaiti settlement was largely created for the benefit of the Anglo Iranian Oil Company. Saddam who had been hitherto an ally of the US which was keen to encourage his containment of those dangerous (anti USA) Shias from Iran suddenly became a threat though all he was trying to do was to re-establish ancient borders and possessions. Our (USA interests) friend became our enemy. Grudgingly Saddam was obliged to withdraw but that was not enough for Shrub and the neocons. We then had the farce of the non existent weapons of mass destruction which conveniently ignored the fact that one of our new chums Pakistan was also in possession of WMD. Saddam was game playing much in the same way that the USA and the Soviets had been game playing throughout the cold war unfortunately for Saddam his bluff was called and the full weight of the US and NATO was employed to countereact a known non existent threat. Meanwhile our chums in Pakistan slept easy in their beds ,the while collaborating with their chums in the Taliban and Al Khaidr.
I have little issue with intervention in ex Jugoslavia which if anything was a timid resonse to Slav aggression against Muslims and a result of unfinished WWII business. At least ther NATO forces were engaged in trying to separate the warring parties.
You may have felt heart warmed by public reaction but don't confuse acclamation for approbation. I daresay that the heros of the Eastern Front felt the same way on the streets of Berin but that doesn't mean they were in the right. You may say that as in the Welsh valleys you can put a red collar on the pig and we'll cheer it but it's still a pig.
You may find this offensive but do learn a litlle history/geopolitics. Like you I am a grear believer in the honourable history of the RN, the British Army and the RAF but that honour was ill served by the Gulf Wars.
PS Don't forget our loyal Brylcreem Boys had no hesitation in dropping Mustard Gas on the Abyssinians much like Saddam and those pesky Kurds.
Should work...
Thank you kindly Meester Watson.
A Ning network is wot hosts SFN and wot costs us a lot of money to provide you 'orrible lot with a platform to have a go at each other on / express yourselves on (delete as applicable)
Donations welcome and we accept all major credit cards/ used fivers and pots of home made jam :)
oooh...whats a Ning network...? ;-)
Annie I agree in terms of treatment on offer....when a diagnosis is made...which they are often not, so many psychopaths do not have a diagnosis and therefore do not get appropriate treatment...
I find the idea of society wishing to lock up and throw away the key for so many psychologically damaged people depressing. We all tend to look at things from the position of the injured party....how often do we consider how we might feel if we had a son or daughter, brother or sister who had a mental illness and did something terrible?
That was in response to Cate btw - friggin Ning networks :)
Indeed. Pass the friggin cheese...
There is always the choice when something is unethical. "just doing my job" doesn't cut it when excusing the brutality of war.
Martin, I think you said it all in your original question when you said " a person who is prepared to lay their life on the line for Queen and Country". They have the choice and they take the decision to join a service where they may well be killed. An innocent child murdered for the sexual satisfaction of a predator paedophile or, by their own disgusting parents does not have the choice and does not make that decision, therefore in my book that is a far worse crime, including the terrible, vile butchery perpetrated by those two against poor Lee Rigby.
It is important to understand that Serviceman/Servicewoman and the Police do not have a choice when instructed to undertake a “lawfull instruction”. Those out of uniform do.
I would admit that there have been some dreadfull loses in combat but so too in the public arena.
After both the first and second Gulf Conflicts and the Balkans, it was heartwarming to hear the appreciation on the people whenever we went out on the streets.
Who is staging the scene, Martin? The drone attack reports, or the killing of Rigby? I will also add that I tend to steer clear of all mainstream media, preferring first hand accounts, footage, and photos of events....
Off topic? I really don't think so.