Is this going too far?

I first heard of this on BBC 4 radio this morning - currently being developed via animal experimentation.

I’m not of the younger generation, but maybe this might be of beneficial interest to future generations - or would it?

Sounds a bit out of this world to me…or is this the way things are going? Heavy input of AI…and so much more…

Seen too many SF and Horror films where this sort of thing happens. Scary to be honest and think of the population explosion if people are able to afford it. I don’t like it personally especially when there are babies and children without parents already that could be adopted instead!


More info here about the process…

World's first 'artificial womb facility,' will let parents design child's height, strength, intelligence - Study Finds.


Yikes @Bonzocat !

As I always do, I look for downsides and there is quite an alarming one that could evolve from such an invention. :pleading_face:

Firstly, there would be loss of aspects of a child’s well being, physical and mental, that are transferred during gestation and about which we do not yet fully understand.

All very well saying ‘thus will help provide for the childless’. Who exactly? Should all people be able to easily? Who oversees the ‘buyers’ is there any vetting at all? Having a child should be hard and require much reflection, commitment and effort. What if the baby is somewhat less than the perfection the parents ordered, are there returns?

Then, there are the bad actors waiting. There always are. People who view this as a money making opportunity. Eugenics. And less than ethical political regimes.

A ‘baby farm’. I shudder to think where they would be able to harvest eggs. Willing, or otherwise. Would baby girls be at risk? Money making baby farms would have no concerns about population gender imbalance. Want to create an army? Easily done. It’s a horror story.

Do we really want procreation taken away from women and put in the hands of ??

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I can see a future race of warriors, misogynists etc.
Just look how men have turned normal pregnancy and birth into the pain we deserve to have due to coming from Adam’s rib, therefore, second rate and taking the apple.
Can you imagine the Taliban creating women when they do not need them anhymore?

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The subject matter for me is difficult to digest or form any conclusions or comments at the moment, but have since discovered a 2020 Guardian article, part of which I paste here…

“The lamb is sleeping. It lies on its side, eyes shut, ears folded back and twitching. It swallows, wriggles and shuffles its gangly legs. Its crooked half-smile makes it look content as if dreaming about gambolling in a grassy field. But this lamb is too tiny to venture out. Its eyes cannot open. It is hairless; its skin gathers in pink rolls at its neck. It hasn’t been born yet, but here it is, at 111 days’ gestation, totally separate from its mother, alive and kicking in a research lab in Philadelphia. It is submerged in fluid, floating inside a transparent plastic bag, its umbilical cord connected to a nexus of bright blood-filled tubes. This is a foetus growing inside an artificial womb. In another four weeks, the bag will be unzipped and the lamb will be born.”

I agree with all you say, almost, but why do you have to turn it into a mysandrist rant?
Far too much mysogyny and misandry in the world today.
Can’t we agree that the subject of this thread truly is horrific, without prejudice?


Wild animals give birth quickly, easily and noiselessly, which is essential out in the wilderness, to avoid attracting predators. Domesticated farm animals such as cows and sheep have a hard time giving birth judging from what I see vets and farmers doing in farm yards on TV.

Women also have a hard time. It’s extremely painful and can and does elicit shrieks of pain and can be prolonged, which would very soon attract predators. A woman’s anatomy isn’t suited to giving birth quickly, easily and noiselessly. It shouldn’t be like that, but there we are.

I’m sure the elite, wanting the best of everything, might be attracted to such a birth in their own pod in the nursery. But I’m sure they’ll be a whole lot of ethical talk before such a thing will or will not happen, in the next ten to fifteen years.

When will we be truly able to foresee the consequences of our actions, and hold back – never! And what are the odds on someone somewhere going through with this in the next 10 to fifteen years – probable I’d think.

We never learn or are unable to, due to the human condition.

Painful human birth is mainly down to the insistence, in modern times, that women lay down to give birth. Traditionally women squatted which is a far more normal position given the position of the birth canal, so it is far less painful. As for farm animals, I’m assuming all the cross breeding has led to far more complications as seems to be the issue with more and more breeds of dogs. Herdwick sheep seldom have complications possibly due to the fact they haven’t been cross bred.


I’ve not watched the video, but having had some professional involvement in fertility & human reproduction I’d be surprised if many countries would permit this to operate as a purely commercial enterprise, free of very carefully constructed legislation and control. Even China put a medic in prison a few years back for genetically modifying a couple of human embryos for resistance to HIV, then allowing the girls to be born.

I’m sure that artificial wombs could be developed and would be a fantastic life-saver for a small number of babies at risk because of maternal complications. But there are way too many ethical hurdles for a ‘baby factory’ to be permitted in the nightmare scenario some of the comments here suggest.

Indeed. The use of caesarian section has changed female physiology, through us enabling mothers who would previously have died in childbirth to survive and continue adding to the gene pool. Nature is utterly brutal and without a shred of kindness or mercy. Who would have ever that wanting our loved ones to survive childbirth would harm the human race?

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Aldous Huxley would have been pleased.

Well, that’s put us men in our place :joy: I’m sure I had a role somewhere in making our daughter, but it’s all so long ago I could be mistaken.


I wouldn’t be at all surprised if China were already preparing the factory.

Marry this to the successfully completed CRISPR genome editing of Dr He Jiankui in 2018. The Chinese government may have helped fund the CRISPR babies experiment, at least in part, based on newly uncovered documents. Following international condemnation, China then condemned Dr He to 3 years imprisonment. The Civil Code of the People’s Republic of China was amended in 2020 by an added Article 1009 which states: “any medical research activity associated with human gene and human embryo must comply with the relevant laws, administrative regulations and national regulation, must not harm individuals and violate ethical morality and public interest.”

All this to satisfy international moral outrage. Who is to say if, and when, ‘public interest’ and China’s falling population birthrate, may be best served by baby farming?

Only the one?

One role or one daughter? Only one kiddy, I was too exhausted for any more.

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Now, how do we keep the baby farm in China from learning about this development

The already have a large enough rather robotic army.

Depends. If people weren’t forced into lying flat on their backs, made into patients, and frightened messed about with and made incompetent that would be a good start.


Tech is going forward at an incredible rate and soon we will be in “too far” territory whether we like it or not

Apart from being able to grow babies, the powers that be will also be able to control how they think.


I think it’s pretty much inevitable if you accept the proposition that you can create your own identity.