La fin d'une ère

So when are you going back to good ol’Blighty?
The sooner the better would be appropriate for the Barries of this world.

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@vero - can you tolerate us immigrants who do not agree with Brexit to stay in your country?

(I am not sure there would be a similar tolerance in UK)

From this I don’t think I would blame you:

If a democratic decsion was made to impose a curfew on all red haired people, and you were a carrot top, would you accept it happily?
Silly example I know but didn’t want to risk causing offence by using a minority group that might really get a thumbs down in a democratic referendum.
And before you say Why would a democratic vote go against redheads - show a politician an opportunity to make capital out of it and give the media a few years to work on it and Î’m sure it could be arranged.


You really don’t have a clue do you. It would be bad enough if you were a little Englander tucked away somewhere in Britain but as you are someone who has taken advantage of FoM who has admitted that the economy and well being of their country of origin is worth less than the democratic opinion of the mis-informed goes beyond belief. You might have got the Champagne out the other day knowing that you had won the right to gloat but the underlying problems and the divisions still remain and the economic slide and the lowering of opportunities and standards will continue into the future.
Let’s remind people, you are the person who couldn’t explain how Britain would be improved by Brexit beyond repeating the word sovereignty like a parrot and could offer no example how any rule imposed by the EU, a foreign entity no less, had impacted negatively on you.
Only a fool would change their mind and accept the unacceptable.
I must add that anyone who posts admiration for someone like Farrage on a forum like this cannot expect their views and opinions to be taken seriously.


I accept the flaws in a democracy have been exploited to bring a country low. I’m sorry it’s the country I come from. Hubris is a terrible thing.

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The UK’s days are numbered. Despite Bojo saying “Nyet” to Nicola, the Scots WILL eventually get their referendum and the more he digs his heels in, the more the people of Scotland - whether they voted for the SNP or not - will be pissed off. So every time he, and his would-be fascist ERG cronies refuse a democratic vote, I am cheered because I can see an independent Scotland eventually (maybe 10 years) entering the EU in its own right. About the same time as Irish reunification. Well done, Brexiteers, you’ve screwed the UK.

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I suspect that the first to split will be NI - despite Johnson’s reassurances that there will be no checks between NI & the mainland I suspect that there will be if he wants any sort of deal with the EU.

This will hit the NI economy, as will any restrictions along the UK border in Ireland (however small and inconsequential they might seem to non-Irish - such as the need to have an IDP to drive in southern Ireland) so I suspect that pressure will grow for reunification, helped by the fact that NI has a guaranteed constitutional route to a united Ireland (and automatic entry into the EU if this happens). Other factors to consider are that the Catholic population is growing and was predicted to be the majority by 2021 and something like 24% of the NI population actually hold Irish passports anyway.

Scotland is a bit trickier but if NI did secede it might well follow, but would have to apply to join the EU as a newly independent country and that might take years.

Discussions start about borders again.

Tusk has just done a nice bit of pot-stirring.

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I’m starting to get annoyed about all these clips of “thick” Brexiters.

OK so they don’t understand but they shouldn’t be ridiculed. It’s not that simple. They were asked to vote on something that they hadn’t been educated about. The shame is on the government, not on individuals.


It has been said that we should not blame those that were lied to - but should hold the liers to account.


I was disappointed by the lack of references to “Muslim rayguns”…most talk was of fish, immigrants, & unemployment.

Thank you Anna, Two of my closest friends (living in France) voted leave. Both are intelligent, politically well-informed individuals who thought long and hard about what they were doing because they believed that the EU is corrupt and the central bureaucracy is stuffed with fat cats. They both believe profoundly that the EU needs to change and (sadly) thought that a protest vote was a way to achieve that end. They are far from the bigots being stereotyped here. They learnt a long time ago to remain silent about their decisions because of the nastiness of remainers who somehow seem to believe they have the right to some moral high ground. I think neither side comes out of this well.


Are they going to leave my country, then?


You’ve said ‘my country’ several times now, I’ve always paid my tax etc to the French government but am starting to think I should have paid you instead. :thinking:


I’m hoping Tim that your thinking will progress to the point where you realise you may have made a tasteless mistake in commenting as you did, and retract it.

Otherwise it is open to being seen as an unpleasant personalisation, with no real justification in fact.

Or it could just be a joke

Oh, I see! One of those jokes that’s sprung with stainless steel teeth that close on your fingers hilariously when you touch them.

But Tim does sometimes leave those around for our amusement. I expect he will tell us.

Yes, indeed they do and they are likely to remain in place whilst people such as yourself deliberately engage in using provocative and insulting language towards those who happen to have an opinion which is different to your own. I refer here to the use of such terms as “little Englander”, “the right to gloat” and “like a parrot” which are unnecessary additions to your text.

Unfortunately there are those who seem unwilling to understand that for some people the independence of the UK, and its ability to govern itself via its own Parliament are more important than financial profit and monetary wealth. The issue of Sovereignty (the power of a country to control its own government) is for many people a very important one, and for some is the paramount issue of the whole EU discussion.

Personalising the debate by speaking of the good or bad impact upon individuals is missing the point somewhat. The whole Brexit issue is not about what is best for the individual, but rather about what the individual perceives to be best for the country as a whole in the long term.
The people of England (either in whole or in part) have now voted in favour of Brexit three times. Firstly during the 2016 Referendum, secondly by electing Boris Johnson as Conservative Party leader, and lastly by electing a Conservative government with a large majority in the recent General Election. Perhaps it is also worthy of note that the leader of the one and only party to campaign in that election for revoking Article 50 actually lost her own parliamentary seat.

During the 44 years that have elapsed since the 1975 Referendum, those of us who voted ‘Leave’ at that time have had to quietly contend with the expressed preference of the then majority. Whilst those four decades passed by, many of us have spoken repeatedly, both privately and more publicly, of the need to leave the EU in the interests of the long term well being of the UK, and this we have done without being deliberately insulting or provocative towards those who had previously voted to ‘Remain’ back in 1975. I don’t think that anyone is likely to change their opinion due to being ridiculed, and so I have to say that I believe that the use of unduly provocative language is actually counter-productive to promoting the cause in which you believe.
Surely now is the time that those who do not believe in Brexit would do better to consider why it is that they were unable to persuade a sufficient majority to their cause. Perhaps the democratic system itself is flawed, and in that case, then perhaps the future of the country would best be served by campaigning to revise that system rather than spending time sniping in an unproductive way at those who hold a different view.

By the way, I don’t recall posting general admiration for Nigel Farage anywhere. What I actually said was that his perseverance is perhaps worthy of note. I don’t always agree with what he says, and there have been occasions when his conduct in the European Parliament has been very inappropriate, the most recent example of which was the flag waving incident.

I try to take the trouble to choose my words carefully. Hopefully, those who read them will also do so carefully, and by so doing, will understand that which I have actually written as opposed to coming to a conclusion based upon a preconceived misconception of my prose.


You did indeed and I heeded your opinion agreed with it, and even amplified it in offering my own.

I don’t agree at all with his politics but he does not foster hatred IMO, although he may harbour dark opinions but be skilful in keeping them to himself. Who knows? He is not going away: he has made that clear and I believe he will fulfil his own prediction. He is, strategically and tactically, nobody’s fool. To think otherwise would IMO be folly indeed.

Your comment above is even-handed and moderate and deserves attention. I hope we shall all respond positively.