I think this is a very fair comment. It’s Labour Party internal politics, and very discouraging for a party member and lifelong supporter like me.
1 Like
It seems to me that for some reason Jewish race has got tangled up with Israeli politics so that its difficult to criticise the latter without attracting the tag of being anti semitic. The Israeli gov is none too pleasant in what it does, a friend of mine has been to Gaza and seen the dreadful conditions there…no wonder there is trouble. I am no supporter of Corbyn but the powerful voice of the pro Israeli lobby then use this against him because he spoke up for the Palestinians. This then got mixed up with hard left Momentum fight with the New Labour Blairites who are thankfully back in the ascendancy to give real opposition to Bumbler Boris.
I guess a lot of people struggle to undersand whether Jewish is a race or religion and why the Palestinians and Israelis can’t share the same country…after all there are catholics and none Catholics in UK and they all live together peaceably ! It seems religions are the cause of much strife across the world .
1 Like
That is superficially a convincing proposition, but it’s no more true than suggesting that armies are the cause of war. Like most human institutions religion can be called in aid of war and strife and division, but only because some people are able to corrupt it for evil purposes.
Most people who embrace religion are peace-loving and committed to a life that is inspired by fellowship, the sharing of kindnesses and the relief of suffering in a world where suffering is sometimes inevitable in the general way of things. And no-one is immune.
The antidotes to religious intolerance are humility, open-mindedness and the cultivation of goodwill through education.
2 Likes
Short reply from me:
Whilst I do not agree with everything that you say, I most certainly strongly agree with the thrust of your argument!
Very well put sir!
Maybe I didn’t really put it right re religions, as I agree that fundamentally that they and their adherents bring a lot to life …and I would class myself as C of E , but some, a very few, can use religious extremism for other means.
I don’t think your view here is entirely convincing Peter.
Armies are not a sufficient cause of wars, but their existence is an essential condition for wars.
Let me draw an analogy that I found useful - and might ring some bells with you. When socialists in the west found out gradually about Stalin’s crimes, they generally had 3 kinds of reactions:
- Some denied it was happening - it was western propaganda, etc.
- Some accepted it was true, but a perversion of socialism - nothing to do with their own ideas.
- Some, however, re-examined their own ideas, self-critically saw elements of socialist thought that could indeed lead to Stalinism - and embraced therefore a very different form of socialism.
Now when I hear religious people talk about violent religious extremism I hear a lot of 1 and 2 - eg.
- Yes the killer was religious, or talked about religious motives, but that had nothing to do with the killing.
- Yes the killer was religious, but my religion is totally different.
What I don’t think I’ve ever heard is the more honest and thoughtful response:
What is it, actually in religion, that leads people to extreme violence - and how must religion change in order to stop this?
2 Likes
For what it’s worth, a British guy I know slightly, who lives in France (maybe sees this site) was a qualified architect of some years’ standing with no problems ever reported about his professional work. It turned out that he has strong views on some topics, including Judaism, and expressed some comments on a non architectural stream on Facebook. Somebody in the UK took great exception to what he wrote and he was reported to the disciplinary committee for a breach of the architects’ code. The committee deliberated and then expelled him, which means that he can no longer practice as an architect in the UK, or even call himself an architect. These are very sensitive topics.
For somebody, I presume you mean one person, took exception and this guy’s career was ruined.
Appalling.
Thank goodness for free speech here in France.
Whilst we know that there have been many wars that were called or are called religious wars most had at their source desires by ambitious and greedy persons (some of whom may have been clergy back in the past) to take what they could for personal or corporate benefit. The colonial era also saw Europeans and Americans seeking to expand Christian influence in a muscular way, in some way in the same sense as some parts of Islam or israel as a state are today seeking to extend their territory and power. At least a couple of distant relations of mine literally lost their heads in Africa and China.
On reflection I agree Geof, and thanks for your more sober assessment.
The flaw of religions seems to be their reliance on revealed metaphysical truths, by-passing rational examination and the application of critical judgement, a more messy and provisional way of handling complex and often inscrutable issues. And their appeal to hierarchies of authority and power dressed up as humility and simplicity.
The language of religion is too often rich in metaphors of struggle and warfare, which don’t encourage ideas of peace, except by defeating evil in its variety of seductive forms. Like writing sticky prose sentences, I fear, Gawd 'elp me! 
1 Like
Your reference to “revealed metaphysical truths” is not quite true of many religions out there, despite it clearly being the case in Christianity and Buddhism.
As regards “rational examination and the application of critical judgement”, whilst nicely stated, it belies the fact that religions are often referred-to as “faiths”, because without a sense of faith, nothing makes sense at all.
If by faith you mean reconciling oneself to not knowing, living equably with uncertainty, then we’re on the same page I’d say. 
The problems christianity is having - and of course that most religions have - with LGBTQ+ issues are I think instructive. If you believe either in revealed truths or metaphysical truths, or both, your beliefs sit outside of human history, changing social norms and expectations, etc - so when history moves on you have problems.
This goes deep. It’s not just that religions get stuck in internal conflict and recondite theology that most people have moved beyond - religion is actually left behind in the very areas where it seeks to lead. For example in morality and ethics, Sartre & deBeauvoir, Singer’s Animal Liberation, or Lovelock’s Gaia, have opened up entirely new areas and ways of thinking about personal and social commitments and standards, while religions seem to have been stuck in Victorian , or indeed medieval controversies.
2 Likes
Let’s simplify this subject:
- Religions are not races.
- The actions of any member state should be subject to the standards of other member states. Israel has been ethnically cleansing Palestine since occupying their land in 1948. They are committing atrocities. To blame the Jewish religion for this is the same as being “Anti-Hindu” because India commits similar atrocities in Pashmir.
- Israel as a territory is predicated upon a biblical (fictional) birthright. Fundamentally, most Jews originate from Hungary.
- Criticizing the actions of Israel is cleverly and deliberately protected by the term “Anti-semitism”.
- People subscribing to the Jewish religion accounts for 0.2% of the world’s population.
- Unfortunately, the Anti Defamation League controls every aspect of government, the UK being no exception and JC, whom, understandably, has issues with unpleasant things like the sniping of Palestinian children should have known better than to criticise Israel. Having read all 130 pages of the “Antisemitism” report, the EHRC report, it is predicated upon classifying criticism of Israel’s domestic policy as a direct criticism of the religion. Obviously, this is deliberate. Clearly, your objectivity as an “ardent JC hater” is questionable. JC, as any morally correct person, should indeed side with the people whose land is occupied, destroyed and being consistently eradicated. You choose to call this “sucking up”.
- The people behind Israel, occupy every important position in the world since 1717, with steadily increasing influence. It’s depressing, but there’s nothing we can do about it. All we can do, at a very basic level, is to avoid stupid mistakes such as confusing religions with race. These people have utter contempt for anyone else, including Jewish people.
2 Likes
I wrote above that ‘people’s view of Corbyn is mainly shaped by where they get their information’ - it’s really nice therefore that folks here are posting some alternative views, not found in main stream media.
Here’s a more environmental take on Israel/Palestine - making clear its similarity to what happened to American ‘indians’ and Australian aborigines - and to their more earth-friendly outlooks…
Well not for long! Three new pieces of legislation aim to restrict democratic rights (another Zionist worldwide goal - look at the current US election fiasco) adopted by France’s Senate on November 20th. The bill includes provision criminalization on campus gatherings, with a 45,000 euros fine and up to three years in prison. Education Minister, Jean-Michel Blanquer, blames progressive intellectuals for nourishing radical political Islam through their work on racism and Islamophobia “islamophobe-gauchisme”.
The second piece of legislation, a ‘global security bill’ gives police a ‘freer hand’. Interior Minister, Gerald Darmanin, said “the cancer of society is the lack of respect for authority”. The bill criminalizes the publication or sharing via social media images of police unless blurred! This prohibits, in effect, live streaming, investigative reporting and citizens reporting of police abuses.
The third bill, designed to tackle ‘Islamist radicalism’ would assign ALL french children a TRACKING number to ENFORCE compulsory attendance in public or government recognized schools thereby ending homeschooling or religious schools.
So much for “Liberty, Equality, Fraternity” as France’s national motto!
1 Like
All French children who attend state schools already have a registration number and this would being all other children into the same system.
I haven’t heard about the campus gatherings, but there are already demonstrations about the photographing of police and it seems as though they have shot themselves in the foot with the appallingly aggressive handling of a black person.
Macron has viewed the footage and is demanding that the Interior Minister comes to see him.
I do agree that there does seem to be an attack on French Liberty, but I cannot see it coming into fruition.
I can see mass demonstrations against this and then the covid figures rising exponentially.
Would she like to say that to all the old folk who died in the EHPAD down the road at the beginning of Covid?
There is now a serious outbreak in a Hospital specialisee also just down the road.
This will jump up the figures for area, even though it is in one locale.
2 Likes