Good evening Porridge,
I too am a follower of Rick Beato and I think that he rarely puts a foot wrong. I have seen this video and I agree with his analysis. In general terms, modern music IS rubbish - or, it is so derivative that it is laughable! The problems are legion. Never has it been easier to make music - freely down-loadable programs used by kids in bedrooms has seen to this, but getting this material heard by āthose-who-matterā is very difficult.
The music to which I listen most is located in the 1970s and before, including rock, pop, blues and jazz, but most of the young pop mucicians today seem to focus more on aspiring to celebrity than on musical heritage. If you asked them to trace their musical roots, I doubt that many would be able to go much further back than Beyonce or Kyle!
Compare this with the young Mick Jagger, Van Morrison, Bod Dylan, Neil Young, Brian Wilson, Joni Mitchell, or Lennon and McCartney. These individuals knew where the music came from, honoured their predecessors and travelled thousands of mile to hone their skills. Of course, there are still some who do this today, but they arenāt ever going to be āpop starsā. They are in pubs, small festivals and niche labels. They often know their fans by name and they represent a unique and priceless link to musicās roots. They work hard and, often, their rewards are meagre.
Not too many of popās aspirants are prepared to take the long road. Of course, there are those who have a genuine talent in writing and/or performing, but more often, promotion is the key. For example, what exactly is Ed Sherinās unique talent?! He is undoubtedly ubiquitous and very wealthy, but, frankly, his songs are banal. Compare his work with the work of those named above, at the same age. Donāt even start me on rap! Schoolboy rhymes delivered with a sneer seems to capture it for me! What on earth would Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grappeli have made of it?!
Some might argue that many of the artists I mention above might fall into the category of āgeniusā and I might be inclined to agree, but where is the current generation of āgeniusesā? I suspect that the pop music system doesnāt seek or want them. What it wants is what works (i.e. makes money), not something or someone exploring āthe outer limitsā, or challenging the accepted order of things.
Itās a sad state of affairs, but we are fortunate to be able to access music from many, many years ago, alongside the current offerings.
Brian D.
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Now you are talking (welcome btw 
) At our annual night market here when all the streets are closed to make room for various restos, stalls and bandstands, one year there was a curtainsided small van parked outside the Mairie. The curtain was open and inside were 2 musicians, one with a fiddle, the other a guitar. Close your eyes and you could see the longhair and the Gypsy right there beside you. It was magical. Never knew their names, never heard of them before, never saw them again. Maybe they just dropped in on their way to somewhere else. 
Priceless. 
@Harry , Adele is one of my exceptions, something about the voice. 
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I think itās very hard to compare music today to the 70ās or earlier. There are āmusic/arts schoolsā now where people with some ability can study music and learn to play various instruments etc, it is an easier route to producing stuff that will sell than playing gigs in pubs several nights a week hoping to be spotted by talent scouts, the likes of Adele and Ed Sheeran both had this sort of start to their careers.
Another big difference from 50 years ago is the internet, anyone can post a basic video or recording made in their bedroom on YouTube etc at very little cost so possible exposure is instant. However, whilst it easy to get your music seen and heard now the chances of you making it big and still playing stadiums in 50 years time like the Rolling Stones or Elton John is next to zero just like it always was.
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Surely that can only be a good thing.
Indeed, but that isnāt a guarantee that everyone will like hearing it.
Both my parents attended the Guildhall School of Musicā¦ 2 lifetimes agoā¦ 
As someone who has worked within this industry (or adjacent as Iām not actually making the music) for over 30 years I have fired up the ārant-ometerā at least 3 times now to reply, but I think itās best I just sit on the sidelines in case I end up with a forum ban 
That said, I think I may have to have surgery after how deeply rose-tinted some of the thoughts are, my eyes may never quite recover. 
Itās a shame as there are many, many problems with the music industry of 2023, and the wider entertainment industry as the fact that half of it is currently on strike shows, but it certainly isnāt about āpop starsā who in my experience and that of everyone I know have never worked harder or been more dedicated to their craft than before. Ask Jagger or McCartney whether theyād do Lady Gaga or Dua Lipaās job and theyād both say not for all the money on earth, and unlike today they actually made some money and did so just by making some music and going on a tour. The industry is a terrible mess but thatās the fault of labels, tech companies, and consumers who wonāt pay for it anymore. Paying the same price for half a billion songs (a month streaming) that youād previously pay for 12 (an album) and expecting things to be the same is nothing but foolish. Anyway, I can feel the rant rising and I have brand partnership contracts to review so āpop starsā can earn some money to be able to make some music in their bedroomsā¦
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Good morning Harry,
Adele is interesting. Iām no expert, but I believe that she attended some sort of college to develop talented performers and writers, as did Amy Winehouse. Presumably there were others who attended and have since disappeared. Of course, such an option didnāt exist in years gone by. Imagine the old blues men being offered third-level education to develop their skills. Some of them were too busy dodging the lynch mob.
Adele is, without doubt, a powerful singer and a very good writer - I recently heard her heaping praise on one of her schoolteachers who had encouraged her writing at an early age. However, the content of her material, so far as I am aware, is fairly limited. There was one phase where the effects of a break-up were deeply mined for suitable material. I suspect that, although Joni Mitchell probably invented this type of self-revelatory song-writing, her palette was and is much wider. Iām not too sure that Adele has written much about wider social, political, or environmental issues, which Mitchell has done - and donāt even mention Dylan!
Adele is definitely very talented, but I suspect that few would class her as a genius - however poorly defined that word might be.
Best wishes,
Brian D.
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If you could do it without getting the ban Iād love to hear your thoughts, even if you disagree with some of the things Iāve said.
Well done for pointing out that things arenāt the same as they were from a much deeper perspective.
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Good morning JohnH,
Youāre right - the current ease with which people can create music is a very good thing, but I think that I didnāt properly make my point. Many older people will well-remember families singing around the piano. Ordinary people have been making music forever. Itās not the making of music that has changed, itās the making of music with the intention of making a career of it that has changed beyond recognition.
Making music as a means of self-expression or as a social activity has many benefits, psychologically and socially, but the expectation of fame and fortune seems to be a more recent aspect of the activity. When the route to fame and fortune was by navigating the motorways in a Transit van in the middle of the night, only the very talented and the very determined would prevail. Recording something with a backing track and hitting āSendā doesnāt require such dedication to oneās craft. In addition, being told by your mum that youāre brilliant isnāt quite the same as getting the unrestrained reaction of 50 half-drunk punters in a pub in the back-streets.
Best wishes,
Brian D.
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Good morning kirsteastevevson,
I think that you may have chosen bad examples. Lady Gaga is 37 years old and some estimate her net worth at $320m. Dua Lipa is 28 and is estimated to have $35m. Jagger and McCartney almost certainly didnāt command that scale of wealth at those ages, accounting for inflation. At 80 years of age, Mick Jagger has $550m. and Paul McCartney has more than $1b at 81 years of age. Pro-rata these younger artists are richer than the old boys and Iām not too sure about your insights into the minds of the older stars. However, the focus of the thread is on the quality of the music, not the state of the industry.
It does seem clear that you are dead right about the state of the music industry. As I mentioned earlier, I follow Rick Beato on-line and he has some really good articles about the industry, as has Ted Gioia. Both regret the way the industry has developed in recent years and David Byrneās book How Music Works has a whole chapter on how contracts work (or donāt work!). Of course, tāwas always thus. There are plenty of stories of how incredibly talented artists were robbed by unscrupulous and/or incompetent managers. Leonard Cohen would be a prime case here.
Best wishes,
Brian D.
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Iād love to hear a rant on this by @kirsteastevenson.
Iām not much into music, particularly modern music, so a short stint I did at Warner Music was probably wasted on me but was very educational.
I did wake up to Amy Winehouse when Back to Black came out and exceptionally bought both her albums and what a sad loss.
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Mah music homies have all been dead for a couple of centuries at least but actually I think varied music education has been available for a very long time, for all sorts of people.
Older music possibly seems better because what wasnāt as good has disappeared, nowadays technology makes it possible for anyone to hear far more, so obviously there will also be more that we donāt appreciate as much.
Also a lot of the enjoyment people derive from the music of their (say) 20s derives from feeling again as they did then, so possibly if you were out enjoying yourself raving now or in an electro club you might feel differently about it.
Iāve said this before but I remember my parents moaning on about how nightclubs werenāt as good any more but what they meant was they themselves had got old.
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Yes, come on, @kirsteastevenson (if you like, no pressure): youāre hardly likely to offend anyone that much
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Iām not sure who those āsomeā who estimate that are, but they clearly havenāt been taking their brain medicine. For a significant portion of her life her net worth has been in a minus figure due to the extraordinary amount it costs to keep the āHausā show on the road. It is only within the last 6 or so years she has been worth anything at all, and that is because her focus has been away from the music to more lucrative things like acting. There was a time people actually had to step in because she was at risk of bankruptcy because every penny earned went on the music, tours and of course the incredible amount spent on visuals be it costumes, videos or such. She was literally paying for everything herself until her management got in several brand partnership experts (and one not at all expertš³) to steady the ship somewhat. I know of which I speakā¦
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Good afternoon kirsteastevenson,
Iām sure that you arenāt expecting us to feel sorry for Lady Gaga. From what you say, she and/or those around her made a business decision to invest heavily with the expectation of reward. It worked! She was very fortunate to have available some brand partnership experts who could help and was able to become a mulit-millionaire in her 30s, even when one of the experts was not up to the job.
This scenario is not even remotely comparable with the musicians of even just one generation ago, never mind those who were trying to develop a career in the 1960s and 1970s. Iāll bet that brand partnership experts didnāt exist in the days of the young Van Morrison and hundreds like him!
Best wishes,
Brian D.
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Maybe the title should be "Modern musicians are rubbish ". I buy (on CD or vinyl) modern or latest releases but by the older/more mature musicians. Think the youngest recently was Noel Gallagher and heās now 56. Just been listening to Roger Waters lockdown sessions, IMHO brilliant new versions of some earlier solo and floyd stuff, and heās nearly 80 (and still very angry 
)
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I wasnāt expecting you to feel sorry for anyone, frankly I was hoping you would try to make an argument that wasnāt so scraping the surface it sounded like a cliche āman at the pubā who likes to think he knows what heās talking about but, well, doesnāt. I have tried more than once to explain some of the nuances of the modern day business, not least that despite artists wanting to do one thing the business works via likes, plays, and algorithms unfortunately. Thatās why songs are getting shorter and shorter for example, and why there are certain beats and times favoured. Itās songs by Spotify, and frankly thatās partly the listeners fault as the industry is just working from what the data says. Artists arenāt doing any of this. The picture you seem to want to paint is of current day musicians is of a bunch of ill educated idiots. You literally said they wouldnāt know āfurther back than kyleā which I assume was meant to be Kylie, which is the most ridiculous insulting drivel Iāve heard in a long time, I canāt think of a single musician I know who that is even remotely true for from the most bubblegum pop to hip hop icons and everyone in between. They know their stuff.
Honestly, I tried to just politely engage because you either seem like a troll or someone who hasnāt a clue about the actual subject theyāre trying to discuss and seemingly feels that their watching of a few youtube videos puts you on a par with actual industry professionals. Perhaps you too are an industry professional? If so we can say hello during the next FAC all-hands and Iāll introduce you to some of these idiots who apparently know no music before Beyonce 
Mansplaining becomes Briansplaining. If I wasnāt so used to it on this subject Iād be annoyed. Instead I just shrug.
Moving onā¦
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