National service to be reintroduced

Have you done a stint in the armed forces?

have a read of previous comments

other things including an injury sustained at 17 that left me unable to raise my upper arms to my neck or above them also stopped me being able to join up also.

Gosh Harry
 you really went through it didn’t you.

Not good at the time
 but obviously your upper arm injuries got sufficiently “mended” to enable you to take on a nursing career. I have always marvelled at the strength and dexterity needed by nurses
 :relaxed:

Very hot today working in a UK hospital with a good view of the fires on the moors

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yes luckily my upper arm problem is just one of the things I left the accident with. I can push my arms beyond level with my neck but it is not easy nor is it pain free. (much easier if i throw my arms up i can get them high in the air and also with other movement ie someone lifting my arm such as in a struggle they also will move. my restriction rests in the clashing of bones in my shoulders.

Really good idea. I am part of the generation that never had to do it. But my father kind of forced me to do a volunteer military discover training. It lasted one month and you are mixed with plenty of young men and women from all over the country.

My opinion ? That was the first time I met people that were not able to read and write. That was the first time I had to experience what real brotherhood means. The last place where you can find social mixity is now the gas station. My father has been on service in the marine infantry and even if it was really harsh, he still have friends for life from that period, true values, a kind of ready to fight for my flag spirit that I admire, and they made him a man, a tough man.

I think we need back more men like this, more men to experience real life, real problems and discover something else than binge drinking, instagram, snapchat and Les anges de la Télé Réalité

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Maxime, you don’t have to be trained in warfare to be a man, to experience “real life”, or to show courage. I have known many men who have been gentle, supremely self-sufficient, thoughtful, mild-mannered, resilient, tough and reliable in the most challenging circumstances. The two finest examples are my two adult sons, both of whom abhor the army and militarism; one of whom has a severe disability, the other is an honours graduate in English literature who works as a docker in dangerous and very physically demanding conditions.

Your image of the tough-guy reads to me like a male fantasy derived from schoolboy novels and strip-cartoons. Do you fit your own description, I wonder, and spend hours at the gym?

Unlike you Peter, not very fair! :thinking:

“I have no assumptions about my children
”

But you do, Harry. You assume that they should learn that family relationships include the monetarisation of cooperation over family task-sharing, by rewarding those who comply with you value-system, and withholding rewards from those who don’t.

This is a subtle form of coercion. It is not universally practiced. Some might say it produces a mind that “puts a price on everything, and a value on nothing”. We have never withheld anything of value from our children, nor have we indulged them. But we have never hired them either. But what you do is your business, I’m just offering another perspective.

No you’re not! You’re clearly disagreeing (in an overtly pompous and self-righteous way) with the way Harry chooses to raise his kids.

I appauld anyone who teaches kids the value of money - it’s a shame they don’t teach financial awarenees in schools.

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Yes, Bill, my last pagraph was unfair to Maxime, as it does not reflect his position truthfully, and was harsh and mocking. Maxime, I am very sorry about that. But I do stand by my rebuttal of your general thesis of manhood, which is a stereotype in my opinion.

I didn’t do military service as a conscript as I was doing medical training which was a reserved occupation. I did two years in the ACF (Army cadet force) which included drills, simulated military exercises carrying arms, and things like map-reading. I was affiliated to the Warwickshire Parachute Regiment, but never got to jump. There was a shortage of aircraft fuel.

Nothing I learned in the ACF could not have been learned otherwise. Even cleaning a rifle has its medical counterpart in cleaning a bladder-syringe, which is almost as lethal if not properly handled. :scream::sob:

Thank you Bill for your comradely call-to-order. :+1::grinning:

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Oh my
 been reading about it on the News
 :open_mouth:

Who’s being pompous and self-righteous now, Simon?

My big bro’ did his NS, one of the last, loved it, then went to Loughborough, qualified as a teacher, went back to the Army, R Artillery and was an instructor there for the rest of his working life.

im sorry but my son wanted to do chores so for that I asked both my children how much they felt each jb was worth to them and that is what they get paid in extra pocket money. My son saved his own money and his work money fr a year to buy himself a new games console. he also bought some games fr his sisters birthday. Nothing comes in life for free, my kids understand we cannot afford everything unlike many kids who want want want all the time and give nothing.

I am clearly teaching my kids money does not grow on trees. My kids also understand if they want something that if i can afford it I will get it for them but I am honest with them if I cannot afford it. I just asked my son if he felt the money he earned a week 20€ or more for maybe 2 hours work was good value and he said to me its too much. I do not “hire my children” I teach them that we must earn our way in life. I used to have to work my ass off doing 2 paper rounds and helping the milkman at weekends along with delivering the local weekly paper for far less than 20 quid a week. Now that is slave labour.

I have also loaned then an advance on their money I suppose you think that is bad too? A a psych nurse you should read some of the latest review on raising children and it covers the value of money. I realise I did my psych training at a far later date than you so maybe those aspects were not taught back then.

Maybe you also do not take into consideration that my son has medical problems of his own in his mind (how are yu to know I have never discussed in nor do I plan to) Teaching him the value is extremely important and my daughter does the same so that i am not treating my children differently. By the way they have earned a total of 43€ this week between them, doing jobs they choose to do. last week my son decided t have a week of doing nothing so only got his basic allowance, he did so to allow my daughter to do the jobs as she was short money on something she wanted. not only the value of money but also respect. (He helped her for free on several of the jobs

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OK Harry, I shouldn’t preach to you, and from the way you’ve explained your rationale it’s very clear you are doing your very best to bring up your kids decently and wisely. I am sorry if I gave offence, as I like your honesty, and despite touches of tetchiness now and then, your conscientious effort always to be clear, and to encourage others to clear as well.

I haven’t found parenting easy myself. I’ve tried to teach our children things they have already worked out for themselves in their own way, coming to conclusions that didn’t fit my own experiences of life. And I’ve been blind to important needs they had, or support they wanted from me, but didn’ t know how to ask me.

One can only do one’s best, but it often falls short of what is needed, and is sometimes far worse than doing nothing.

One of my sons was deeply embarrassed to be offered pocket money for doing jobs around the home. Yes, I tried it. It felt to him like a bribe, as if I felt he wouldn’t help his Mum and Dad without payment. It humiliated him, and he disrespected me for it. "What kind of a son do you think I am, Dad? He showed me his anger. I haven’t forgotten it. May be it was his mother’s values that spoke through him. She was born into
African society where money does not determine behaviour as much as here.

OMG!

It’s not about money - it’s about the VALUE of things - monetary or not.

Oh and another couple of things 


So stop doing it! :dizzy_face::dizzy_face::dizzy_face:

So stop doing it! :dizzy_face::dizzy_face::dizzy_face:

It’s not ok to keep apologising Peter


i told my son he can help for free if he likes I told him the base pocket money. I also explained it to him that the wages he gets is a learning experience for him. I have to deal with his anger outburst quite allot anyhow and find the more you treat him like a grown up when it comes to certain things he respects that allot more. I cannot juedge why your son got so upset I was not there.

What I do know is we each have different ways to parent our children and our children have different ways to teach us.

There is no right or wrong good or bad unless you d something that is clearly wrong. If we do not educate our children how will they learn their family and life values. In the past 6 months doing a martial arts has improved my sons well being and his anger controls. many people think you should not let kids do martial arts or boxing but i let him and it does him good. The adults in the group are aware of how to handle my son if he has an out burst.

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How old are your children, Harry?

7 and 9