No EU vote for expats over 15 years

Yes Phil and therein lies the difference. You are entitled to vote in all elections Manx and on that basis, I'd be surprised if you felt that you still had the right to vote in UK elections at any level.

The difference here is that (as residents of France), after 15 years of absence from the UK, we become disenfranchised and not entitled to vote in UK elections at any level nor in UK local elections in the interim.

However, whilst we are entitled to vote in French local commune elections, we can not vote in the cantons or Presidential elections but we can choose whether to vote in UK or French European Parliamentary elections (but not both).

Is that not the fault of the French system then Graham, rather than the British mechanism. It would seem to me only fair, that if one has left a country for a certain length of time, perhaps on a permanent basis, then one should lose the right to vote in that country's elections.

I understand that 15 years is an arbitrary figure, but living permanently "abroad" for that length of time, would suggest that the move is just that.

I think I'd agree with you, Phil, if our state pensions were paid by the French government. As long as the UK government is partly funding us, I'd like a small say on how they manage the state pension scheme and the national economy which effectively funds it. I'm one of the expats who can vote in the UK.

As it is, some UK citizens living in the EU will be able to vote in the referendum and many will not. As always, it is hard to say where the dividing line should be. I assume that it was set up in the belief that after 15 years living elsewhere the UK government was no longer relevant. In the case of the Referendum, someone who has lived in the EU for decades may be affected by the outcome but doesn't have the right to vote.

And for people with UK Govt Pensions, they have no choice in the matter but to have it assessed for tax in the UK and pay any tax due there. They pay their taxes but are disenfranchised from the very establishment who levies the tax.

Other pensioners can tell the UK tax authorities to go stuff themselves and only be assessed for tax in their resident State.

The EU referendum has nothing directly to do with the domestic government of Britain. It has all to do with the relationship between the EU and Britain - that is to say Britain in or out of the EU. Those who vote 'Leave' are asking that the international relationship returns to that pre-1973 when Britain was a foreign neighbour of the continental countries, as foreign as Peru - China- the USA and the rest of the world. The many British Citizens residing in France etc would become foreigners (aliens) where they live. The EU regulations which protect (or manage) the social support and day to day lives of British citizens in other States of the EU would cease to have any influence after two years of renegotiation.

Those who vote 'Remain' are seeking for a role as EU citizens and are seeking that the British Government will play a role in the development of the Union for the good of all British Citizens in the EU States as well as at home. In time that might well lead to a democratic representation of all EU citizens in each State for each State - i.e for the French Government etc. Britain and other States would each manage their own internal affairs for the EU residents of their countries.

So voting in the Referendum most certainly is a concern for every British citizen. It is absurd, is it not, to say one does not want a vote in the Referendum because one does not live in Britain? This particular vote is vital. Sadly I am not allowed to vote, neither is my collegue Harry Shindler.

I suppose living on the Isle of Man is somewhat different, but I am a British Citizen, living in a British Crown Dependency, but have no right to vote in a British referendum. But that was my choice to move away from my birth country and I accept the consequences. As an aside, the Isle of Man isn't even a memeber of the EU, but, through Protocol 3, we are classed as associate members, which means we get all the rubbish without any of the benefits of full membership!!

That's because most are French residents and not changed citizenship, they want to keep their heritage and English passports. There are lots of stories flying about that British citizens will be deported, splitting families, losing businesses, thrown out of homes wether they own them or not. I live in France but my income is from my British house rentals, I pay my taxes in the UK, I pay NIC in the uk, but I'm not allowed free medical in France because Britain won't pay, even though they take my NIC, so why shouldn't we be allowed a vote. We are English and the rights of the English do effect our future, are pensions, our medical, we aren't French citizens.

We wouldn't want a vote, if the Uk government didn't try to cheat us out of everything we have paid in and lots are still paying into the English tax system and getting nothing out. They are supporting the NHS and still paying for private medical whilst living in France. Lots of people make rash comments, without any knowledge of what the facts for expats actually are. I pay English tax and NIC which support English pensioners, and English NHS, but I get zero out of the English system and have to pay again in France because I get no English cover over here, so yes I should be very entitled to a vote, no matter how long I or anyone else has been gone. I might live in a different country but I'm not allowed to transfer my contributions from England to France, I have to leave them behind to support people like you, who don't care anything about people like US.

By the referendum being a farce, I meant it is a complete waste of money and effort on the part of all concerned. Why did Dodgy Dave think it in the UK's interest to hold one in the first place when it will no doubt backfire as it seems most of the UK are against the EU.

I think it's that he tactically painted himself into a corner in the manifesto in order to stave off the possible UKIP onslaught (which didn't happen in the end).

Yeah, I know what you mean, I pay my Taxes in the UK as well.

On the last return, In response to the question:-"Do you have anyone dependent on you"?, I said 'Yes'

2.1 million Illegal Immigrants;
1.1 million Crack Heads;
4.4 million, Unemployable, Jeremy Kyle Scroungers;
900,000 Criminals in over 85 Prisons;
635 Idiots in Parliament;
An Unknown Number in House of Lords;
and, The Whole of the European Commission.

The H.M.R.C. responded saying that my form was 'Unacceptable'.

I'm still not sure who I missed out ???

Brilliant!

There are those of us Brits, who although we live permanently outside the UK, are still required to pay UK Income Tax on our UK Government Occupational Pensions for the rest of our lives, regardless of where we reside or for how long. Taxation without representation should always be a non-starter in any truly demcratic society, so surely we should be allowed to vote considering that we are taxed.

Well said that man. :-)

I'm sorry Brian, but in my opinion the Referendum has EVERYTHING to do with the domestic government of the UK. In fact, the Referendum is about whether in the long term the UK continues to exist as an independent sovereign country or not, and therefore ALL British Citizens, regardless of where they may live, or for how long they may have done so, should be allowed to vote in this momentuous decision about the future of our country.

The real question behind the referendum is not whether we should stay in the EU as it is now, but whether we wish to be a part of the EU as it will be in 20 or 30 years time. If the UK opts to 'Remain', Britain will in the future be increasingly ruled from Brussels rather than Westminster, becoming progressively more and more of a region of the country under construction to be called Europe United. There is a reason why the nations that make up the EU are referred to as being Member States rather than Member Countries, and that is because the ultimate aim is to make all of the existing different nations into the future regions of one large country of Europe. Voting 'Leave' on the other hand, will ensure that we maintain our 1000 year history of being an independent sovereign country, ruled from Westminster, and with our own Head of State.

The forthcoming Referendum is truly a watershed moment which will decide the future of our nation, and effectively is a decision about whether or not our nation will in the future continue to exist as an independent sovereign country or not, and therefore every British Citizen should have the right to vote in that Referendum, regardless of where they may live, or how long they may have done so.

Our nation IS it's people ---- ALL of them.

The result of the referendum will not affect the governance of education. the police, the health service, management of roads, the taxation system, and other such 'domestic' issues in each country of the Union. If any proposed legislation was tabled by the EU every State would have to agree to it. That is most unlikely.

I absolutely agree with you that the NATION is the totality of the people of that nationality and wherever they live they should have some say in the development of the State to which they are linked. The three words State, Nation, Country, are nearly always confused as being synonyms. State = goverance: Country = the physical geography: Nation = the people.

Sorry Brian, but continued membership of the EU will indeed affect many areas of what is now governance of the UK from Westminster.

The policing of our country will be affected. Brussels wishes to take over many aspects of our policing and judiciary. Please read this for yourself here http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/666387/EU-referendum-Brexit-Brussels-think-tank-Juncker-Europe-intelligence-agency

The NHS is going to be adversly affected by the TTIP trade agreement that the EU is pursuing in secret with the USA. Please read here for the details http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/666769/save-nhs-eu-referendum-brexit-doctor-warn-Angus-Dalgleish

and also here http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666454/NHS-EU-killed-off-Brexit-Remain-Leave-referendum-Brussels-European-Union

the EU wants TTIP to go ahead, and the provisions in TTIP will bring about an end to the NHS as we know it.

Surely control of our own Armed Forces should indeed be a domestic matter. At the moment it is, but the EU wants to progressively take over control of that as well. Cameron and Co have been denying for a long time that there is intent to create an EU Army, but now we know that they have been wilfully deceiving us. Here is the proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyO2waEcVn0&feature=youtu.be

We are not even able to set our own rates of VAT in the UK without permission from Brussels. If that is not Brussels interference in UK taxation then I don't know what is. I presume you are familiar with the recent issue known colloquially as the 'Tampon Tax' ?

The above issues are not raised as a matter of my opinion or conjecture. They are hard facts. Read the references for yourself. Consider the reputable sources and the documentary evidence coming from the EU itself which supports these realities.

I know that you will say that each EU member country has a veto, and that is true at the moment. However, have you not read the EU Five Presidents Report of 2015 ? This report sets out the roadmap to ending the requirement for unanimity of all member states, and the instigation of qualified majority voting instead. Cutting through the jargon, what that means is the end of the veto. Without the veto, the UK can, and will often be simply outvoted. Again, this is not conjecture or opinion, but hard fact from the EU's own files. Therefore the only way to stop an eventual complete takeover of the UK by Brussels is to vote LEAVE.

If we stay in the EU, then it won't be long before no-one will be able to vote for MPs at Westminster, simply because there will not be any meaningful Parliament at Westminster to elect members of.

It would be far more satisfactory to read authentic original documentation supporting these views. The above are interpretations by journalists of the Daily Express and Mr. Hookem.

OK I had included the references to the Daily Express articles to provide an abridged version of the information for ease of reading. However, the full text of the leaked TTIP documents can be found here https://ttip-leaks.org/ examination of which will reveal that it is intended that there will be provisions to open up all government run businesses to private (for profit) competition. This includes bodies such as the NHS. TTIP is being negotiated by the EU with the USA in secret. TTIP is wanted and desired by the EU -- otherwise there would be no such negotiations going on. Why the secrecy ? Perhaps because they know very well that these negotiations are not in the best interests of the ordinary people.

The original documents re modification of EU competancy in respect of policing and the judiciary are to be found in this document http://ec.europa.eu/epsc/publications/notes/sn12_en.htm#h4 This is a report from the European Political Strategy Centre which is a creation of the European Commission itself. It is of particular note that the report states clearly that the proposed changes can be brought about within the existing Treaty framework ( no chance of exercising a veto on this one then).

'The Five Presidents' Report: Completing Europe's Economic and Monetary Union' can be found here https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/publications/five-presidents-report-completing-europes-economic-and-monetary-union_en This is the original document from the European Commission itself. ( Surely it is logical to extrapolate that complete economic and monetary union requires the governance of one central bank operating under the instruction of one finance minister, and therfore,de facto, one government.) The section about facilitating making these changes possible by a steady move towards qualified majority voting to replace the current unanimity requirement also makes very interesting reading.

All the above references are to original documents. They are fact. They are clear and undisputable evidence of the direction in which the EU intends to move over the next 5 to 10 years.

I admit that I am unable to find the original text of the German Gov't papers in relation to the Euro Army issue. Not surprising really considering that it is a leaked German Gov't document, and no doubt the original text would be in the German language and so would not help us much. However, this information has come via the Financial Times, and has been published by a plethora of media outlets of both substantial repute and respected quality. Another couple of well respected references are here http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/germany-pushes-european-army-1557866 and here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/02/uk-would-give-up-right-to-self-defence-if-forced-to-join-europea/ Surely there are so many respected news reports about this matter that they cannot all be written off as journalistic interpretations.

The writing is on the wall loud and clear that the EU still intends to move bit by bit towards the creation of a single country of Europe. If that is what people wish to be part of, and to vote for -- then so be it.

Personally I just want people to know exactly what it is that they are really being asked to vote about. Voting REMAIN is a vote to progressively end the existence of the UK as an independent sovereign country and to become a region of the country of Europe. Voting LEAVE is the only way to maintain the independent existence of our country as such.

About a month ago I read that no lesser person then ex PM Tony Blair had said that all the scaremongering about leaving the EU, like the death of your first born, plagues of Locusts, etc, was not the way to encourage UK people to vote to stay in. He said more needs to be done to promote the benefits of being in the EU, and the good we get out of it.

Well it sounded good, but I'm still waiting to read that bit..............