Any qestions about bible's understanding of marraige and Betty Bowers explains traditional marraige for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw
I believe that is the law in France and the civil law countries. Marriage is a civil contract. It is only open to a man/woman.
So Shirley, what do you think of my idea about taking marriage away from the government and giving it back to the church? Legally, everyone has to go to the government and get a civil union license which makes everyone treated equally and fairly. The churches could choose who they give a marriage certificate to.
I can understand where you are coming from Shirley. I grew up in the Southern Baptist church which is very homophobic. I feel we have too many men interpreting what they think God wants. I find it easier to go straight to God for direction. My God is a God of Love, not discrimination and hatred.
The perfect solution would be for the government to cease giving out marriage licenses to everyone. They should only issue civil union licenses, Then the churches would be responsible for issuing marriage certificates. If your church will give out a certificate to gay couples, that is their choice. If the Catholic church chooses not to do do, that is their choice. In the United States, at one time, we had laws for our schools that allowed seperate but equal schools for white and black children. They are never equal until the laws apply equally to all citizens. Different labels create seperate classes. My relationship of 18 years is longer than most straight marriages today. So I could argue that may marriage is stronger not weaker than the average straight marriage.
Gay "partner" sounds like a cowboy n' indian romance. Anyways, why should 'straight" couples have all the fun with divorce lawyers? But in all seriousness, the reality is that gay "marriage" is an issue of pure economics. I am not sure what the inheritance tax is extracted from a surviving spouse in France, but in the USA an estate passes completely tax free between married spouses. An estate does not pass tax free between 'partners." That is only one example of about 5000 benefits that is based upon the civil status of "married" and that is not available to a gay "partner."
Yes, that is the Neo-liberal newspeak line for the limousine left. The reality is that most of the mid-west and southwest have ballots awaiting the election to change thier constitutions to preclude gay marriage and adoptions. California overturned gay marraige by popular referendum. South Carolina, North Carolina and many other States are already constitutionally precluded from recognizing gay marraige or adoptions. Obamney has simply made a cynical move to try and bring the disaffected left leaning youth vote back for the election.
Hi Kyle
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Thanks
James
It is the first step in the process of obtaining civil rights for all. It is hoped that t President will do an executive order after the election granting gay federal workers equal rights to their straight counterparts. Instead of demanding in all up front which isn't going to happen yet, we come in the back door by obtaining one piece at a time making it easier for other states to join the bandwagon. Some businesses are moving their headquarters out of those states that openly discriminate. They realize that gay work force is a valuable and creative source that they want to be able to recruit from.
Careful going too far with the president is "in favor" of gay marriage. The President of the US only wnet so far as "coming out" personally in favor of gay marriage, but he also said it was a matter of an individual state's right to decide. North Carolina decided to change its constitution to prohibit gay marriages and adoptions. So essentially Obammney only offered snow in the winter to the Eskimos.
I am not sure what you mean by pro-republican as the Washington Post is on the liberal side and is more Democratic. We have the Democratic party and the Republican party. The Republicans are the conservatives. Or another way to look at it is that the Democrats are the good guys and.....LOL
Simon, i understand about waiting on making a decision about full marriage. We also had a civil union for about 8 years before we got married. At first, Americans were traveling to Massachusetts or Canada to tie the knot. Anthony said he would not consider it unless it happened where we were living. And then of all places, our Nation's capital was one of the first localities to pass a marriage law. We married about a week after the law was passed in the chapel of our church. The feeling was unbelievable. We went on a "honeymoon" to Egypt for two weeks. Our fellow tour members treated us like any other couple instead of the "gay couple". We really felt validated as a normal average couple instead of being treated like deviant freaks.
Simon, thanks for the video. Very touching. President Obama in the past year also removed the ban on gays in the military too. As a former Air Force Officer, it was nice to see it finally come around. My partner is Anthony Sepulveda who you have been in contact with. We look forward to meeting you and your partner one day.
Given the Church of England discretely accepted gay clergy way back, as my old friend another Brian who has had a parish and a male partner since round about 1980 would say, they should go the whole hog. The trouble with the UK is that everybody runs scared of the moral MINORITY who simply wish to remain in an idealised and almost 19th century social environment.
Will be interesting also to see what happens in the UK around the proposal to amend the law and allow same-sex marriage. My husband and I became civilly partnered in 2010; we are reserving judgement on whether to convert to a full marriage if the law gets passed in the UK. I am pleased that the US is getting up to speed.
Currently six states plus the Distric of Columbia (Washington DC) allow gay marriage. My partner and I were married in DC in March 2010 right after the law went into effect. We have been together for over 18 years.
Let's hope it guides other stick-in-the-mud countris in that direction. My Italian Swiss brother-in-law and his Argentinian partner have been together for over 20 years and have often said they'd love it. Apart from that, would love to be at the event where retired RC bishop Tio Don Ernesto, my sister-in-law and her common law Algerian (therefore Islamic by birth, if not in practice) partner and thir sons, plus ourselves and various other permutations of religious through to anti-religious, right and left wing politically and some people from creative and entertainment worlds, especially from Italy. The ability ever to have such an event in Switzerland would be brilliant. So best of luck USA and, for once, may yours be the leading example. Hollande should also keep his promise and let it happen here.
@Ben ha ha :-D
@Jerry, it's about time but I think it's a long way off being a "done deal" as you say over there, and a bit risky for his re-election. Hollande should be following suit if he keeps to his promises...!
Don't get the fuzz about gay marriages. When you think of it évery marriage is a bit gay: first of all you renounce voluntary and by oath all other women or men, then you give each other some gold trinkets and you dance around a little bit.......