Registration of modified car

Hi Tom,

As Roger says, “backdating” a 911 is very common and as long as the mods are valid may easily be overlooked/ignored so it may well depend on the exact modifications. (Apologies if you already know all this!)

We are planning to immatriculate a '78 SC shortly so would be very interested in how you get on… Bon courage!

Tom, as it is an early 1990’s car, you wont get a CoC, which means you will have to go the DREAL route, this also means reverting it back to absolutely standard condition as it left the factory, this is of course not including the internal mods to the engine/gearbox as they cant/wont check that. After the dreal inspection and the issue of the CG return it to the spec it is now. Otherwise get rid of it or dont buy it.

Tom, another way could be via the FFVE (https://www.ffve.org/) and declare it as a classic

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Roger… I am not sure it is a good idea to present one car for Control/Registration/Insurance - and then put the mods in and use it on the road… smacks of deviousness at the very least. :zipper_mouth_face:

and who really wants to be on roads where other drivers might well be driving unchecked/uncontrolled vehicles… :wink::upside_down_face:

Stella, i cannot necessarily condone this course of action, on the other hand the “yes/no” regulations indirectly cause owners to do this. As to who really wants… I have seen so many vehicles modified in some way or another on the roads and i know for certain they are not all official sanctioned mods. Also as i think you will know through your motoring activities, to modify a porsche it isnt exactly B % Q or Halfords quality that goes in there.

It is important that any vehicle is safe on the roads… that is the nub.

Interesting. Can’t turn it back to how it would have been originally unfortunately due to the amount of work carried out.

There must be some loophole because I see modified cars on every car meet I have been to and allot v8 engine swaps just check leboncoin so many hot rods for sale their on French plates

Significant changes: definition
It must be considered (1) that there is a change in the risk for the insurer as soon as a conversion requires the vehicle to be re-approved by the DREAL, i. e. when it is a “significant” change.

Article R.106 of the Highway Code states that “any single vehicle or vehicle component that has undergone significant alterations must be subject to a new type-approval”.

However, according to the indications in Circular No. 84-84 of 24 December 1984 adopted for the application of the Order of 5 November 1984 on the registration of vehicles, only certain minor bodywork modifications (under the conditions provided for in Article 12 (&12-1) of the Order of 19 July 1954) of the unladen weight, the P.T.A.C. or the PTAC/PTRA couple (vehicles approved under several weights) do not require an individual type approval.

As a result, all changes affecting the following characteristics of the vehicle description notice are considered as significant changes:

assembly of the chassis,
number of axles,
wheelbase, track and overhang front and rear,
axle weights and loads,
engine (for replacements other than identical replacements),
transmission of movement,
management,
brakes.
In short, practically all the amendments affecting the technical information on the vehicle registration document require the vehicle to be presented to DREAL for approval on its own.

One conclusion must be made in all its rigour: the possibilities of modification are extremely limited for those who wish to avoid a transition to DREAL because any initiative outside this framework would expose them to total or partial cancellation of the effects of the vehicle’s insurance policy.

Traffic violations
The potential consequences of a technical modification of your car do not only concern its insurance but also the regularity of your situation with regard to the rules of registration and circulation of vehicles which are laid down in the Highway Code.

In particular, driving with a transformed vehicle without new approval by DREAL may constitute several different offences (in particular art. R. 238 and R. 241 of the Highway Code) punishable by fines of up to 5,000 francs.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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Thank you @Mark_Rimmer for your informative reply… :relaxed::relaxed:

But how up to date is it? The 5000 Francs fine suggests it’s quite old.
Monaco borders France. Why not get the seller to take is into France and put it through a CT to see what the reaction is. Without any real detail about the ‘modifications’ it’s impossible for anyone on here to give any valuable advice.

Dan this is the route i suggested in an earlier posting. Other than its a porsche 911 there is no other info about the car, so no info about the car then no info how to go about it.

This is from the government web site dated 9th August this year -
Vous devez notamment faire une déclaration si vous effectuez une des transformations suivantes sur votre véhicule :

modification affectant les caractéristiques suivantes de la notice descriptive : puissance, poids et dimensions, essieux, freinage, organes de manœuvre, de direction et de visibilité, énergie, émissions polluantes et nuisances (bruit),
modification du genre du véhicule,
débridage d'une moto effectué par un professionnel, la faisant passer de la catégorie A2 à A (cas du motard qui conduit depuis 2 ans avec un permis A qu'il a obtenu avant ses 24 ans).

The big difference between your post and mine is I’m saying get the seller to do it, don’t do it after you’ve bought a car that might not be possible to register in France. I know of at least one American who shipped a car over from the States then discovered that he couldn’t get it through all the hoops. A costly mistake.

Dan you are right, it isnt known (or at least i didnt find it) that the car wasnt bought yet, i took it that the poster already had the vehicle in question.

Hi all, French dude here spending way too much time on cars. I’ve done a fair bit of research and I believe I know the subject quite well. You basically have three ways about driving a substantially modified car in France:

  • not register any mod. As long as you stick to the original fuel type (diesel/petrol) you’ll pass the CT just fine, save maybe for pollution (ie moving from a 1.6L to a 5L V8). In case of an accident involving injuries the appraisal conducted on your car will most likely bring to light the mods and this is when it can be scary as your insurer will be all too happy to reject the contract based on fraud on your part.
  • go the whole 9 yards and register the mods. The DREAL requires you to first and foremost get the car manufacturer’s approval. As you can guess no one can ever get the green light. Mind you, BMW would not even approve to me swapping out an auto gearbox for a manual one!!!
  • find a happy medium between the previous options: register the mods to an “understanding” insurance company. You will still drive a technically illegal car (which can only be a problem if knowledgeable cop started looking under your hood but that would mean you drove like an assassin in the first place) but at least you’ll be covered in case of a (serious) accident. There are only two such insurance companies, however they are very restrictive as to what cars they accept (only hot rods or “historical” cars).
    Bottom line, I’ll probably move to Germany as far as I’m concerned.

Having lived in Germany for a number of years and built two super seven variants, along with countless VW mods i wouldnt be so quick to want to move there. The almighty TüV has the last say. Even though there is a list with recognised modifications, the TüV inspector doesnt have to approve a listed mod with no reason needed. In Germany a lot of tuning things have EU type approval which states exactly what has to be done to get it through the CT. Theoretically if this type approval is available then the ct cannot refuse to allow it. But that is only in theory, like a lot of other things, the practice looks a lot different.

Most accessories and tuning parts in Germany are sold with TüV tested certification. Using those parts smooths out the registration process.

I’d guess somebody, somewhere has undertaken similar mods Tom. Why not enquire with the technical forum of the single marque club.

That’s where I go for Morgan advice.

Thanks for your feedback. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Germany is paradise but there you have a way (albeit potentially complicated and costly) to legally drive modified vehicles, as you have shown yourself. By legally I mean accepted/recognized by both the MOT and your insurer. On the other hand, driving a substantially modified vehicle in France (not just bolt-on bodykits, those would never get you in trouble unless you build a spaceship replica with sharp metal edges and blinding chrome) that is approved by BOTH the State and your insurance is simply NOT possible, as much as I regret it. The French equivalent to the British SVA or German TüV special examinations was never intended to cover performance modifications but rather mundane stuff like tuning a car into a food truck or an ambulance. Although performance mods are not explicitly ruled out, the list of criteria they require you to meet is just a joke and I know of nobody who ever made it through with a swapped (more powerful) engine or anything similar.
That does not mean no one drives souped-up cars here but their drivers will not be covered in case of an accident.