Right to residency - Early retiree

(Nigel Smith) #1

Planning on moving to France at some point. We have had a French property for almost two years now (just prior to the referendum!) and the plan was always to retire to it in the future.
The question is, what additional steps may I have to take to achieve this, once the UK becomes a 3rd party country as opposed to being a member of the EU?

(Andrew Hearne) #2

owning the property doesn’t change anything (imho) :frowning: being legally resident in France before/on the brexit cut-off date does. Unless things change, that is! So in short, get out here and get legally resident and into the system before the cut-off date :wink:
That’s my take on it, others may offer different advise!

(anon71231711) #3

As Andrew says. Your guess is as good as anyone’s what will happen about Brexit but failing any special arrangements, you would need to apply for whichever visa you meet the criteria for, then once you’re here you’d have to jump through all OFII’s hoops in order to get your carte de séjour which involves going to integration classes - all the things US/Australian etc. citizens have to do. Some info about visas and cds requirements here

(Nigel Smith) #4

Hi Andrew, thanks for your response. I’m sure you’re correct about the property not changing anything.
My point is more “how many more hurdles may I have to jump if we leave the move to when the UK becomes a 3rd party country as opposed to being in the EU”. Ideally I’d like to leave it another 3-4 years, but wondered how much bureaucracy this would entail, so have to weigh up the pro’s & con’s.

(Nigel Smith) #5

Hi Anna, thanks for your response. I will have a read on the link later this evening.

(Andrew Hearne) #6

Hi Nigel, I think Anna has already answered - we don’t know/how long is a piece of string/have a look at what’s required for non-EU residents. France is renowned for it’s bureaucracy for very good reasons - it’s endless :open_mouth: Sorry we can’t be any more precise but that’s down to May et al :frowning:

(Mat Davies) #7

This is a topic we are very interested in and we are in a similar position of already owning a house.

Intention was to move over in June/July 2019 (edited from 2919 - doh!) - we may instead try early March. What a farce.

(Dominic Best) #8

I had not planned to move to France before the summer of 2019 but I brought my plans forward. Everything might be fine after March 2019 but I wasn’t going to take the risk. When Brexit happens I will not have the luxury of five years residency but I will hopefully be in the health system and have completed a tax return. We don’t know what will happen in the future but moving to Europe certainly won’t be easier than it is now. I personally would not have wanted to have had less than three months residency by March 2019, how could you prove that you had become resident and were not just on yet another holiday in your Maison secondaries?

(Mark Robbins) #9

According to my Google home thingy, a piece of string is twice as long as half it’s length :sunglasses:

(anon71231711) #10

You’d be very old by then Mat :wink:.

(anon71231711) #11

Easy for me to say I know, but I actually think that retirees / early retirees are worrying far too much about this. Yes it may be more hassle, because it will be a case of immigrating rather than exercising your EU rights. There are checks in place to ensure that people have enough money not to run into financial problems; there are rules in place to oblige immigrants to learn a little French and to learn about French culture when they arrive. Are these bad things? Personally, at the risk of sounding harsh, I think the only people who will be seriously deterred by these things, are the people who maybe shouldn’t have been thinking of moving here in the first place. It’ll stop people making the move unprepared, on a whim, hoping to get by on the seat of their pants knowing that if the exchange rate drops they’re scuppered; but the ones who have thought things through and planned for the move, should be fine.

The people who stand to lose out badly are the ones who were hoping to come here to work or set up a business, because that is going to get a lot lot harder to the point of, only a minority will find a way. Tit for tat, those are the ones who will pay the price for the UK shutting its doors to EU workers. Personally I think that will be a loss to both Britain and the EU but most of all to the Brits who have seen their horizons suddenly shrunk to no bigger than the borders of the UK.

(Mat Davies) #12

But it will take until 2919 to save up enough money! But still young at heart.

(Graham Pollard) #13

Just my opinion. If I were within 3 years of making the move I would then have to balance what harm I may do by pulling the trigger early against how difficult it will be to get secure residence after March 2019.
The first can be calculated and you will be protected by the EU (perhaps).
The second is all guesswork.
Only you can tell how that balance works.

(anon71231711) #14

Well, worst case (and probably most likely) scenario is that the conditions for obtaining a visa to enter France and then a carte de séjour to stay here, will be the same as for all other non EU citizens. Those conditions aren’t guesswork, they’re well established and they’re easy enough to find. There’s a link to the OFII website above, and the govt website also gives an overview - https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F16162
It’s possible there will be special conditions for Brits because anything is possible, but I don’t see why there would be. TM is champing at the bit to put EU citizens through UK immigration procedures so why would that not be reciprocal.

(anon54681821) #15

even as eu citizens we are still immigrants though just eu immigrants. Personally think there will be many hurdles to stop brits moving over here permanently after the UK drops out. Other option is if you have any irish in your family get an irish passport then your still part of the eu as ireland is not leaving the eu.

(Mat Davies) #16

I do have the Irish option available - but I don’t know how this would work for my wife.

(anon71231711) #17

Technically according to the EU, no we’re not. I don’t have this link bookmarked and it would robably take too long to hunt it down, but EU citizens moving around the EU are not classed as immigrants. They’re EU citizens exercising their right to free movement, which is a separate category.

Which is true when you think about it because immigrants by definition have to go through immigration procedures, and what immigration procedures have any of us Brits gone through? We didn’t apply for visas, many of us haven’t applied for cartes de séjours, probably some of us don’t even know what OFII stands for. In a sense successful immigrants have more security than us because they’ve jumped through all the hoops and been given official permission to be here. We haven’t immigrated, we’re not immigrants.

EDIT Not an EU text but it is discussed here on page 18 http://www.institutdelors.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/libertecirculation-menghiquere-ijd-nov16.pdf

(anon54681821) #18

yet for the mst part (off topic i know) but in the UK we refer to polish and other eu countries as immigrants. I can no longer vote in england as far as i personally see it im an immigrant and in a years time we will all be immigrants anyhow.

Not sure but something to look into as if you get it through marriage your wife may get it also and your kids.

(Dominic Best) #19

Perhaps you shouldn’t as they’re EU citizens. It made me smile to see your post, sometimes capital letters really do change the meaning of a sentence. :slight_smile:

(anon54681821) #20

yes thanks for pointing out my bad grammar i really do appreciate having my face rubbed in it. Just be glad you can actually read it and its not all jumbled up. taking the mickey out of other members you dont actually know can be taken in the wrong way. many of the people on here know me for my crappy spelling and my utter dislike for the term expat., ut while this forum is excellent other forums ive been on in the past have been full of hatred and nastiness where the admins did nothing. Thankfully here the admina are very hot on things like that. But i’m so used to having to raise my own voice in retaliation to comments that its almost instant reaction. Something I have to gt used to on here still not to do. Thankfully the admins and moderators do an excellent job and tell me off when i react a bit too strongly to the point I feel like saying “sorry mum” hahaha