The basic truth is if you support abortion or not some women will still need/want one, if they cannot get one legally and safely they will get one illegally and with potential dangers It isn’t black and white
I have thought long and hard about this and have come to the conclusion that, because this is supported by so many women, it is not just about abortion, it is about keeping those who have on top and those who don’t have on the bottom of the pile.
All these children who will now be born because their mothers could not access abortion will, more than likely, be born into poverty and disadvantaged lives.
The Evangelical Right have aligned themselves with the Orthodox Jews, which makes a hard sector to fight.
What is so surprising to ourselves is that the USA is denying assistance to Afghanistan because of their attitude to womens’ rights when they are turning their own women into breeders and ignoring all the
issues, the health of the mother, rape, incest and the ability of the parents to afford this child.
The issue of legality or whether this should have been passed into law by Washington are covered elsewhere in these posts, but it seems very strange and worrying, also to many Americans if the reports coming out are true, is that the Supreme Court could decide to take away other rights should they choose.
It is about time that men took a long hard look at themselves.
Russia, Afghanistan and all other dictatorships are all led by men.
Taking a world view, men are responsible for nearly all of our problems and it is about time that those men who do care stood up and made their presence and voices heard in a more effective manner.
If it is a moral question, there aren’t exceptions. If ‘life is sacred’ then life is sacred, you don’t pick and choose. You can’t say oh no abortion except xyz. If it is ok for xyz then it is ok for everything. It isn’t a nice thing but the least we as societies can do is make it a straightforward and a safe thing. The sooner the better.
It isn’t discrimination against men to point out it is ill-judged on their part to impose their view on the half of the population directly concerned. No man will ever have to bear an unwanted child, no man will risk their life in a backstreet getting an amateur illegal abortion, no man will have to deal with long-term side-effects of such a procedure.
So no man gets to decide.
To my mind a mother has the right as to whether she will use her body to carry a baby.
I speak as a baby born illegitimately and then adopted, so perhaps have more of a stake in this argument of many who are taking part.
I am sure you know also that that is not what I said, I was talking about men being permitted to voice a view, not impose one. That I would, and do, disagree with.
Voice a view, fine, legislate against a procedure or make it so complicated it is virtually impossible, not fine.
I’m sorry David to have reacted as I did, I probably overreacted kneejerkily to the use of the expressions ‘screeching about women’s right to choose’, (‘screeching’ seems a loaded term to me); and ‘the right to life of the unborn thousands’ which again seems a loaded term.
And where does the expressing an opinion stop? Picketing clinics with factoid pictures? Pseudo counselling? Moral blackmail? You may express an opinion decently and rationally, many don’t.
I am going to mute this thread as I am finding it very distressing that the same old chauvinist and patriarchal statements are being trotted out that I thought had been dumped in the 70’s.
No woman “wants” an abortion. And no man has the right to say she can’t have one. End of.
I haven’t had time to read everyone’s posts, Robert is right that this will not instantly lead to bans in all states - but that’s not exactly the point. It would be a retrograde step if it only involved one state.
Mississippi is set to make all abortions illegal 10 days after the AG confirms the supreme court decision, currently it is 20 weeks.
5 states currently ban abortions, 11 more are set to ban abortions in the light of the supreme court ruling.
See Politico for a state by state breakdown.
In the above list I can’t see any state without an exception where the abortion is necessary to save the life of the woman, so I’m not sure where that anxiety has come from but there are some states (eg Misouri or Michigan but they are not he only ones) where there is no exception for rape or in the case of foetal abnormality.
However it is clear that Clarence Thomas has his eyes on decisions that legalise, for example, contraception and same sex marriage - this from the NBC news website
This is nothing if not an attack on the rights of US citizens - and, increasingly, where the US goes the UK follows.
The rights of the unborn are also very easy and convenient for politicians to champion, aren’t they? Unlike exploited and oppressed people, they don’t demand a more just and equitable way of organising society that might endanger your position; unlike the sick or disabled they don’t need higher taxes to pay for their care; they don’t tell you that as a white, wealthy and privileged man you ought to stand aside and let Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run for president…
1 million “likes”.
Goodness, that post gave me a flashback… I’m back in pig ignorant, Catholic Ireland in the sixties with politicians genuflecting to child molesting bishops.
Completely Geof, this is just a wedge issue that was devised way before wedge issues became popular.
You’d think with all their concern for the unborn child that the US would have the world’s best maternity provision, perinatal care, infant and mother’s health services, preschool and primary education, wouldn’t you.
For me? Here.
Or hey wouldn’t let their children be massacred at school.
FFS - have you never heard of accidents?
I’ve had an abortion and whilst not pleasant, best thing I ever did. Most women have and we are all being made to feel shit about it by men.
Yup, same here.
(I really, really must mute this thread. Not good for my soul).