Hello everyone!
Following up from the initial refusal letter by CPAM and then a 'mountain' of letters from RSI, we have now received invoices going back to 2009 totaling nearly 30,000 euros, for unpaid cotisations. To give you an idea, we declared 4500 euros in 2010 and they want us to pay 8866 euros for the RSI. Confusing eh!!! We have some savings, but these are being spent on living (heat and food). We are even still wearing the clothes that we arrived to France in 8 years ago. So we are not living the 'high life'!!!!
We are lucky enough to have found an english speaking lady at our local RSI, but any advice or help would be appreciated.
Thanks for all help in advance!
I hope this all makes sense, cos we are a little confused!!
Anna and Peter
The accountant will take responsibility starting from now, but the backlog could easily be your problem. If you don't pay the outstanding bills RSI sends you, registered letters will start trickling in and the matter will be out of RSI's hands and in to the bailiff"s, whose fee you will have to pay.
I'd go and talk to them, it's always worked for me and saves a lot of hassle in the long run.
If you really owe them money, you can pay in installments, once the bailiff gets involved, they can seize you.
Being proactive gives you brownie points with the administration!
Take care and good luck
Yes it certainly pushed us into a 'is it worth it all' corner but for quality of life for our boys we decided we would fight on and also my husbands business is slowly growing so we hope that if we are liable for huge amounts they will at least let us pay small amounts monthly without burying us. I also forgot to say you can find a social worker who will apparently help fight your corner (help write letters and show you what benefits if any that you are entitled to) and I believe it is free although I may be mistaken, its the advice we have recently been given and our next port of call depending on the next letter from the RSI.
Let me know how you get on! Abby
Hi Abby
You must have balls of steel to still be here in France, and wishing 'us' good luck!!!
In our ignorance we did not appoint an accountant, as our earnings were so small, we thought the advise and help from friends was sufficient.
Yesterday we had a meeting with a very helpful (english speaking) accountant who is now fighting our corner.
Lets hope that everything comes good in the end!
Good luck to you too!!!
Hi Anna,
I havent written on here for ages but your plea is similar to a problem we have with them so I thought it may help (or not!) reading our story. We were declared in 2006 in our business by an accountant. We paid URSSAF bills that came (always slightly more than we could afford but we managed it) we were covered by CPAM and thought that was that. However in 2009 we received a facture from the RSI for 5000 Euros. I assumed it was a mistake, there was no explanation and we were paying URSSAF so didnt think that we would be liable. The letter said it was for 2006 and 2007. I went to the office who said they couldnt deal with it as it was 'historic' so I had to go to Toulouse. I asked the accountant to look into it (only later finding out that he didnt because his printer wasnt working) and didnt worry too much, I was off back to the UK for a week so had other things to think about. Two days after we got back we had a baliff on the door demanding the money, so that was within two weeks of being sent the facture. Never had a baliff in our lives so you can imagine the shock. Fortunately they accepted a payment plan which we have just finally finished over 2/3 years on. In the meantime last year they sent us three more factures in one envelope totally 47000 Euros to be paid within a month for 2008, 2009, 2010! I got rid of our accountant and got someone else into help who managed to get it down to 27000 in a phone call (??). I've been to the office to show that our earnings are low and theres no way we can pay it. There was a lot of head shaking and people coming out of the office to look at the papers not understanding why I was sent such a huge bill and then advised that I contest it. Ha ha the RSI wanting me to contest about the RSI - what a load of rubbish. They haven't got a clue what they are doing. They gave me a form to fill in and told me to explain my situation in full and attach any documents to prove our earnings. They got sent a huge pile of documents in September. In October I received a final demand for the 27,000 saying we had to pay it in full in 2 weeks without reference to my letter so I sent another back asking why they are sending me that after everything I sent. Two days ago I received a letter from them to say they have reviewed my case and are going to take 4000 Euros off the bill but after an official recalculation it could be more or less than that amount. So really we still dont know where we stand, how much we will have to pay and how quickly and my palms still sweat when the postman comes! We also changed to Auto entrepreneur in Jan 2011 (I went into the RSI office in Jan 2010 and had to explain to them what auto entrepreneur was before they found a document that I could sign!) and after demanding that they recognised that we had changed and wanted to make declarations they only just in September got round to sending us 18 declaration forms in one go with an official letter to say we were now officially auto entrepreneur. Its a crazy system and caused us no end of stress and worry. My advice is to keep talking to them, don't ignore it as it only gets worse with interest and extra charges. As mentioned before, send letters registered post and keep copies of everything, assume everything you send will be lost. Take names of people you talk to and even the date you did. Also we were unaware through financial troubles that we could have asked the RSI for help and also the CAF (not sure if this applies?) had we of know that we would have been in a much better position than we were. Good luck!
Anna, I had major problems with RSI, as does everyone else including the French. I had an accountant but she wasn't doing the 'right thing' as she was in the process of moving on, as it turned out later. A friend in the same business (immobilier) recommended a firm with offices in Draguignan and St Raphael and although it was a little costly having them wade through 2 years of mess, they sorted everything out including crazy and duplicate demands for different amounts (somehow I'd been given 2 TVA numbers) and got my bills reduced to an almost reasonable amount before helping me to dissolve my sarl.
I'd been told to expect to pay above 25000 E and eventually paid closer to 19000, which was a relief, although I still didn't have a Carte Vitale! That finally came when I registered AE instead.
They also looked over all the demands that came during this year and said they were mistakes that they'd sort for me, even though I no longer use them since the end of the sarl. It's good to have someone on your side, if you can find a good accountant, if only to reduce the stress levels.
My local RSI is about 1.5 hours away, but I discovered there's a weekly travelling office open in Fréjus for 2 hours on a Monday afternoon. You might make enquiries to find if there's one nearer to you? They've been very helpful; as Jan says seeing them in person makes such a difference both for you and for them - being able to put a face to the name makes you a real person and they start working to help you. Having said that, they're just as puzzled as I am at some of the letters I receive! But at least the misunderstandings are registered and hopefully something gets done.
Yes we do have a SIRET number, but it seems that the CCI did not tell anyone about us :(
Our local RSI office is about 3.5 hours away, so a bit far!!
I thank everyone for all their help and advise today, especially you Jan. Both myself and my husband are talking in circles and getting more and more stressed and confused.
I think we need to wait for the revised demands, when the RSI receive our tax declarations, then we can start worrying again!!
Hi Anna
The CFE isn't the cotisations that you pay to be in the health system and towards your retirement. It replaced the professional property tax whose name escapes me (old age creeping on!). If I were you I wouldn't assume anything, particularly as things aren't OK now, but that does at least hint that you're registered somewhere.
Is your B&B registered at the Chambre de Commerce and do you have a SIRET number? My understanding was that if that's the case, it's the CCI who informs everyone else who'd like to take your hard earned money! Is your local RSI office too far for a personal visit. We never got anywhere by phoning but by turning up in person you can often manage to get things done, provided you don't pull the short straw and get the RSI employee who got out of bed the wrong side. :((
If you have a SIRET number have you tried registering online at net-entreprises?
There is a % charge but I don't know what it is based on, I will ask my accountant the next time I see him. As Celia said your best bet is to find another accountant and ask them.
Steve hi, does that mean that there is a graded way or working it out? looks like i have to try and find another accountant to close the EURL and then they can advise me for the year of what to pay....many thanks nicola
Hello Jan
Just had a light-bulb moment after reading you message!! :)
We have received since 2010 a demand from the Regime Micro Benefices and then received the invoice called 'Avis d'Imposition Cotisation Fonciere des Entreprises. The amount paid for the invoices received calculates to approximately the 12% you mentioned. Can we assume we are already registered, as the previous invoice dates are about the middle of November, therefore the 2012 is due soon.
Nicola, I'll pm you. You need to have an accountant sort this - mine saved me a fair bit while I had the sarl. Oh, it seems I have to 'friend' you first (not that I wouldn't) - I'll try another method! - And I've left you a message elsewhere!
NIcola
I don't know how the amount is calculated to be honest, my accountant did say that I was overcharged to start with but after sending letters that went unanswered, I went to the RSI with my paperwork and they agreed that was the case, I just had to wait almost a year to get the overpaid money back.
hi steve, just wondering if you created a EURL, which i also did since 2010, then how does one work out the RSI charges. i paid a certain amount which my accountant advised me last year - but my accountant has now left and i have to find a new accountant to work it out . i never questioned the amount previously. on my earnings through the eurl, if i am not taking a dividend then what is the %? i am closing the eurl at the end of this year as it is just too expensive, given the tva /charges on the societe etc. any advice appreciated?
My heart goes out to you as we've had endless run ins with RSI in the early days of running our B&B, and were sent massive bills. We then discovered that we could pay the 'régime micro-social' which is the straight percentage that autoentrepreneurs pay. If you want to change to this regime for next year, you need to make the choice before 31 December if my memory serves me well. These two links might be useful: RSI regime micro-social or net-entreprises form
I agree with whoever said you should have been paying something and that the annual DCR would have let RSI know how much you owed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you that they manage to sort things out, but do try and get yourself on the micro social for 2013. For a B&B you declare 'chiffre d'affaires des ventes de marchandises' and this year's percentage is 12.1% if you don't opt for 'le versement libératoire' which makes your tax payment at the same time.
Bon courage,
Jan
I hope you posted "lettre recommande avec avis de reception" because these letters have a very big habit of going missing.
I was told by a representative from the RSI yesterday at a small business forum in Normandy that it is (approx) 1600 € for a zero declaration (N.N does not apply to an auto-entrepreneur, where if you earn nothing you pay nothing).
Hello Hilary
We did send any tax forms, because unfortunately we were unaware that we should be with RSI and not CPAM. CPAM have been covering us for the last 8 years and it was only this year that they realised we should be with RSI.
I am not saying this is their fault or our fault, but it is a shame that the left and right hand work differently.
I sent of, by post copies of the tax declarations this weekend, and hope to receive revised 'appel de cotisatsion'.
Do you happen to know the minimum earnings, for the minimum payment. I find the website for RSI a little confusing.