S1 form - help pls!

That’s not the case in Ireland Jane. My wife has an S1 because she is dependent on me, a pensioner. It is the person that is dependent, not the document. I’ve been through this, I know how it works. Maybe the UK system is different, but that would surprise me.

Yes it is different. My partner is not financially dependent on me, but his S1 is dependent on mine and hence he’s linked to my Amelia account

That’s interesting. We were ambushed by the dependent thing and had to do some financial juggling for my wife to be eligible.

When we rang DWP, they asked no questions whatsoever about income and sent the S1 straight away as it’s quite a usual thing to do.

For clarity, you are also entitled to a S1 if you work in the UK and reside in France (frontalier) on a ‘regular’ basis - I have one. Perhaps you too could be a frontalier if you set about doing your UK work in the UK?

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Unfortunately I reside and work in France (remotely for a UK company) however I still can’t get an S1 unless I am claiming (being paid) my pension. Here are the eligibility criteria as provided by NHS Business Services Authority (Overseas Healthcare Services)

• Be in receipt of a UK state pension or be due to receive one within the next 90 days
• Be a posted worker or work as flight or cabin crew or on a vessel at sea.
• Be in receipt of a UK exportable benefit (a benefit paid from the UK that can be made exportable)

I wouldn’t say that’s unfortunate - sounds good! - just thought I’d signpost a potential option for you.

I imagine you will time your eventual pension drawdown to maximise your resulting France exemptions from social charges :slight_smile:

I recall there was a thread or posts on the site about the merits of putting off taking the state pension…

Regards.

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I know that. You asked specifically what dependent meant in the British context!.

Ha :rofl: You are so right. We are loving it here. It’s been an ambition of mine to move here since I was a child but only managed to finally make it last year. My OH is very “european” and we have a little place in Croatia too, she sort of moved there some years ago but ended up back in Blighty. Vive la France!

On reflection, I suspect the key criteria is to be in receipt of a state pension, which I am. When I applied for an S1 for my wife she was ten years away from a state pension. By declaring her a dependent she now receives a modest pension based on my entitlement and thus an S1. She is attached to my Ameli.

I’ll explore further when I get a chance. I cannot understand why the systems are different in Ireland and the UK. It’s the equivalent of the NHS in Ireland that issues S1s, not the equivalent of the DWP. Maybe that’s a clue.

yes I am a ‘frontier worker’ so have an S1. It’s our accountant who’s saying that my husband should have one too.

Not sure that’s the case as I have an S1 as a frontier worker even though my husband now retired at 63 doesn’t. Not that Ameli wanted it!

I have a new question on switching from frontalier ‘worker’ S1 to pensioner S1.

Situation is up to now Madame is covered by my frontalier S1 (renewed yearly) as my dependent - latest up to September 2023.

now Madame has the UK state pension we applied for a S1 for her and I (as her dependent) - both received and lodged with CPAM - her account set up in her name.

With typical French efficiency Ameli now want a copy of my S1 again (seems they only have the first page ???) however they are also asking

“When did you cease working in the UK” - which I haven’t really, at least fully.

Not sure whether to give them a date, e.g. when I left main employment, or to say not completely ceased but cut back and would like to be covered under my partners S1 now…

I know there is a link to UK NI with frontalier S1’s so I don’t want to bugger up the NI position which I presume would be class 2 self employment going forward and ‘cutting back’.

I feel its important for me to be able to revert back to a full time self employed S1 down the line if necessary just in case madame decides france is not for her down the line. (unlikely but we’re not married or PACS’d)

Any thoughts everyone?

Apart from frontaliers, can people get an S1 in France if they are still actively paying NI (rather than making voluntary contributions)?

And what is the benefit to you of changing from a frontalier S1 to a dependent’s S1? You would still pay your NI presumably,

To me the logic is that a dependents’s S1 stems from the S1 eligibility of A.N.Other. But you are eligible through another route, and not being married or PACs’d makes the case a bit odd too.

The most transparent to me is to say you have not stopped working completely, and be prepared for them to tell you to chose one route or another.

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I’m feeling a bit stupid here as I don’t really understand this. I actively make contributions; he doesn’t. Can he be my dependent? Pls explain like to a 5 year old, as me and admin don’t gel…thank you!!

Thanks for your thoughts Jane. Re your queries - (I edited to paste your comments directly in here for clarity)

Apart from frontaliers, can people get an S1 in France if they are still actively paying NI (rather than making voluntary contributions)?

  1. One has to be classed a frontalier I think to get a ‘workers’ S1. Not sure if there would be a minimum level of NI, however technically the work has to be ‘regular’ but doesn’t have to be full time. It’s all a bit of a grey area (RIFT were trying for more clarity but seems to have died a death). e.g. multiple periods of work over a year - would HMRC really be issuing multiple x S1’s for each period? I don’t think one could get a S1 if paying NI but not residing in France (or other EU state).

And what is the benefit to you of changing from a frontalier S1 to a dependent’s S1? You would still pay your NI presumably,

  1. Yes would pay NI if doing work (unless the pay for the work is below the contribution limits) - the benefit for me is it removes the need to go through the HMRC and CPAM process each year (or if any issues come up when one reduces work).

To me the logic is that a dependents’s S1 stems from the S1 eligibility of A.N.Other. But you are eligible through another route, and not being married or PACs’d makes the case a bit odd too.

  1. Actually, Ameli does seem to fully embrace concubinage for S1’s - in fact for the calculation of household income for the complimentary mutuelle they specifically specify concubinage - i.e. for people living together each of their incomes count towards the elegibility platform.

Regards.

Hi, I just looked back at your posts, I would say yes you should ask HMRC for an S1 for your partner as a dependant (it’s the fact you’re partners that is the key - not whose income is greater). They should backdate it to align with your S1 dates.

The online form has a section for you to add a ‘dependent’ - you should have added your partner then?

Hope that helps? do ask if you have more queries :slight_smile:

PS your comment about the HMRC hassle with low income reinforces my concerns - and therefore maybe better to go with my partner now being entitled though the state pension, thanks.

In 3 years time you too will have the option I now have when your partner gets the state pension!

I am not sure if one can be a Dependent on the UK S1 if one is not married or PAC…
Can someone please clarify this ???

Larkswood gave a sensible explanation above - France operates different standards.

Yes he can. Don’t think of the word dependant as in the old fashioned “little dependent wife’y” but instead as just linked to yours as you are a couple and France has this concept of households.