I’ve never heard that before, it’s brilliant! 
This might, perhaps, be inscribed in letters of living fire over the threshold of the forum for all to see. It is the key to reasonable productive discussion, debate, dialogue and decision-making.
If people can have an opportunity to share what words, terms, ideas, concepts mean to them before engaging in argument with each other, more light is generated and much less heat, to the benefit of all.
I stress to them because, as I think we all realise, we construct meaning out of own personal experience, and each of us experiences the world differently, so our meaning differs accordingly. Once we’ve constructed our meaning, we like it very much, make it work for us (with more or less success), and usually defend it against anyone wanting to challenge it. That’s quite normal, but that doesn’t necessarily make it ‘right’ or productive, as our posts show (including my own, of course).
I’m only making this ponderous philosophical point because it may help somewhere along the line, amongst a group of fine, principled, intelligent and good-humoured interlocutors on this forum.
1 Like
It’s a difficult word to define isn’t it…??? “Sovereign”…can be used to describe a king or queen…or as Simon screen shotted Wikipedia…there is also “sovereign citizen” which has come to be regarded as a “terrorist” movement in some quarters as opposed to “the living man/woman”…
According to the general definition of a sovereign state, the UK already is one
so it’s more a case of becoming sovereigner.
4 Likes
Yeah…the uk doesn’t have a constitution or at best has an “uncodified constitutuon”…common law overridden by statute and “legal” precedence…I’d be tempted to say that common law should take “legal precedence” when there is no harm…but if an advocate of common law whilst staying loyal to “the sovereign” queen of England can be jailed for non payment of council tax then it leaves me doubtful…,
How can state held to ransom by Wooster-Mogg and the Moggettes be considered sovereign?
2 Likes
Don’t worry John, its all a drug fuelled nightmare we are going through. It can’t be true, Britexit process is not actually happening and Wooster-Mogg can’t be fav to become Tory Leader and by default, PM… Nooooooooooooooooooooo !!
Martin
2 Likes
On the other hand Martin, the biggest arse in mainstream British politics becoming Prime Minister and swiftly screwing up might lance this ultra Brexit boil al last. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/18/brexit-transition-period-plan-splits-mps-select-committee
1 Like
Brexit supporter having a problem naming one EU law… James O’Brien, my hero!!
6 Likes
Good link. I think the guy on the line is totally representative of the average leave voter… maybe even one of the brighter ones 
3 Likes
What a thoroughly depressing fellow - he must be a bundle of fun at home. Loves hearing his own voice and not liked even by remoaners:
Who? JOB? He generally makes me laugh out loud. Or rather his callers do!
2 Likes
1 Like
I don’t get your point Glen. They were actually mostly in agreement until the caller cited Henry the Eight splitting from Rome as a reason to be optimistic about Brexit 
BTW, the guy on the phone sounded more like a junior accountant to me, not an economist.
Anyway, have you come up with one good, concrete and measurable reason for Brexit yet? Or one UK industry that will benefit (apart from the miniscule agribusiness)?
2 Likes
I hadn’t heard of him until Simon’s post. He’s a total hoot Just watched him wipe the floor with Farage and going to watch him (hopefully) do the same to the odious Duncan-Smith.
2 Likes
He’s brilliant. Really sharp bloke and seems to be a genuinely nice guy too. We are addicted here at SF Towers!
2 Likes
Yes, this one is a gem!
1 Like
Hello to you who voted to ‘Leave’.
How do you feel with our present Gov, giving up on so much during the negotiations, that your ‘Taken back Control’ is getting weaker and weaker, plus by leaving, we have no control re decision making in EU policy.
Here is another example of what the Gov is prepared to ‘give in’ to the EU. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/18/uk-appears-to-abandon-bid-for-immediate-return-of-fisheries-control-after-brexit-michael-gove?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Or
So, as Leavers, are you happy with this situation where we are giving up ‘Control’ and having which is ‘EU Lite’ or would you want another referendum where you want a straight ‘Out’ vote or ‘In’ Vote’?
Martin
2 Likes
Fishermen are, of course, one group who really do want to have their fishcake and eat it. They want all the EU restrictions on their industry removed while they need tariff free access to the European market to sell their catch.
1 Like
Another climb down by Davis, the Brexit Bulldog. The fishermen were codded by Gove and now battered by Davis.
3 Likes