Taxe Foncier calculation


(anon52461035) #1

While I am aware that the Taxe is calculated on the nominal rental value of the property as in days gone by in the UK but does anyone know how it is calculated initially before all of the print out with the rubbish collection shown etc. and the various %'s and amounts going to where-ever?


I only ask as some time ago I was informed by the Impot that my properties, house and 3 Gites, were of a certain square meterage, which does not equate to my calculations from my own accurate measurements. Is it only the ground floor measurement or the first floor as well that they use to calculate the rental value.


I paid up on time, so this is retrospective, as the first year here I was fined for late payment as they sent everything to the old UK address and that hurt, as a substantial amount and taken straight from the bank with no warning, who then added insult to injury by fining me for going overdrawn.




(austyn Hallworth) #2

Hi Roger

I have recently installed a 9x5 pool and I was very interested to read your article on ‘Déclaration Modèle H1’ and the levy involved. Is it possible for you to expand on your experience either in this forum or privately?

Thanks

Austyn


(Andrew Hearne) #3

Quite, Simon, and when they do get round to up-dating the records the resulting increase in taxe foncière can be alarming so better just pay-up and keep quiet.

As for going anywhere in France just before midday, you live and learn! I upset a "pain-in-the arse" customer, who overstayed his welcome in my shop the other day, by asking "ce sera tout parce que je mange ?!" most people are almost appologetic between 12h and 14h but he just didn't get it so ended up getting a piece of my tongue and we had a good row before I threw him out. No I'm normally very commerçant, mais il y a des limites !!!


(Andrew Hearne) #4

isn't that normal...? ;-)


(Sharon Freeman -Cope) #5

Suzanne I have paid habitation tax for the last seven years, even though I have only lived here for the last one. Even when my home Was just a holiday home for us ( never let as a rental) I had to pay the full amount. Even had to pay the full rate for tax fonciere even though my bin was probably emptied a maximum of four times a year. They did let me off the tv tax for a couple of years though


(Simon Oliver) #6

Rental value is the main thing: How much could the place be let for? This depends on location and size.

Second thing is comfort. How many bathrooms and toilets does it have?

Thirdly, the pool. Is it a sunken basin or 'hors sol'?

There are no little men applying Potteresque algorithms in dusty corners of the fisc. There are just over-worked bureaucrats trying to apply complex rules to out of date data. For example, when you put in that extra ensuite bathroom did you inform the fisc, the Mairie and the water board (not to mention the SPANC)? No? Then how can you expect them to get your taxe foncière right?


(Suzanne Fitzgerald) #7

Roger, I've been sent the H1 every year since we lodged our permit de construire - I have to keep sending it back saying not finished yet..as you can see our tax office is very keen!


(Suzanne Fitzgerald) #8

Brilliant, I think I have a dinosaur tax on the second part of my taxe d'amenagement. Last time it was an archeology tax (for daring to touch the soil) this time the second part is due and seems enormous so I'm sure they've slipped in something random (as well as the most annoying obligatory 2 places of car parking in my own garden).

I also got sent habitation even though I don't live there yet and sent a letter in September to that effect...visit to les impots pending...


(Roger Boaden) #9

Ian,

Take great care concerning your pool!

When we bought our house, no one told us about the ‘Déclaration Modèle H1’. Just over a year after taking over we received a nasty letter from the ‘tax tsar’ in our Region, warning us of pending prosecution because we had failed to sign off on a building project. We wrote back pointing out we had not made any planning application, but that our predecessors must have done so for the installation of a pool and a new toilet in a bedroom.

Back came an old photocopy of an old H1, with a new form to be completed. As we diligently completed the new H1 we quickly appreciated that nothing had changed since the 70s, until that moment. Our predecessors and their predecessors had ‘got away’ with making alterations and not paying more Foncier.

When it came to the pool I was confused, and since I had no one to ask, filled in the space to include the whole footprint, with the slabs surrounding the pool. Big mistake - but in my defence I did send a photograph of the whole set up with precise measurements of both the pool and the surrounding slabs, and wrote a sweet letter asking the advice of the ‘tax tsar’, explaining that I did not fully understand the requirement.

Move clock forward six years - for the first time I learnt of the Foncier being paid by a property with a bigger footprint and a bigger pool - it was less than us. I enlisted the help of our Maire Délégué, who laughed his socks off when he looked at the pool - he reckoned we were being charged for an Olympic sized pool - it was a joke but the point was well made. He ‘negotiated’ with the ‘tax tsar’ whom he described as the most powerful woman in our Region, and she finally agreed they had mistakenly ignored my photograph. He asked for relief for two years which was refused.

The new H1 was completed with only the measurement of the pool - an 8 x 4 pool registered at 32 m². Our Foncier went down by about 12% only! It was an exercise which taught me a lot at the time.


(Marie-Claire Gauthier) #10

Rumplestiltskin?!! Why yes, of course, it just has to be him, I thought it was hobgoblins, what a silly mistake!

On a more serious not, I think there is a long overdue project to reform the tax, but only after Rumplestiltskin passes...


(Valerie Skinner) #11

"Grin"


(anon52461035) #12

"I lost my mind tax" that explains why I no longer have any money then.


(anon52461035) #13

Rumplestiltskin is alive and well and lives in the basement of the tax office in Jonzac. Turned up there at about 11.59 and nearly got crushed in the lunch hour exit. True story.


(Valerie Skinner) #14

"Mysterious amounts" made me laugh - I can imagine some wizened little man sitting in a dusty old room cackling as he adds a bit here, a bit there.

Yesterday actually I did a "translate page" on the Impots site because I was looking for something and one section came up as "I lost my mind tax" - I absolutely howled.


(Marie-Claire Gauthier) #15

IN principle, your tax should be based on 50% of the rental value of the property if there is any kind of construction, and 80% if there is no construction. Then, mysterious amounts are added, nobody seems able to say what these are and where exactly they come from. A swimming pool is taxed…. but it's complicated: you get a break for the first 2 years, then it becomes a dependency if it required masonry and will be taxed accordingly.

Oh, and even if you have payed the tax, you can dispute it!


(Valerie Skinner) #16

I'm hoping some other members may read this, Ian, who have pools who may have (a lot) more knowledge than I do. I agree with you that stairwells etc are most likely excluded - I think it would be 'habitable' rooms (although I've heard strange stories about what can be classed as 'habitable).


(anon52461035) #17

Thank you Ladies I am tending to think you are right as the 'footprint' of the ground floor is much smaller than they told me. I will add in the first floors and see what I come to. It is not a straight forward doubling up as we have big gaps for the stairwells and I assume that thay are not included as living space. Handy for hanging about in I suppose. LOL

The one that gets me is the swimming pool as I assume they have included all of the surround and not just the pool itself, as again this is a much larger 'footprint' than the pool itself. The utility room is listed as a separate entity but I included it in with the ground floor figure with one of the Gites. The reason being it was the front part of the old house hallway before modification into two properties and the rear part is the downstairs shower/toilet room of the gite.


(Elaine Anderson) #18

Think you’re right Valerie


(Valerie Skinner) #19

Hi Ian, I am certainly no expert on this (had to visit the Tresorie myself last week because I'd messed up - still waiting for a revised bill) but I believe it's based on 50% rental potential of the property as a whole, with relative adjustments made according to your commune, so it would be all floors, buildings etc. I don't think it's based on the footprint, ie the ground floor measurement. I will obviously stand to be corrected if I'm wrong.


(Elaine Anderson) #20

Its much easier to pay by “virement” especially if you are still in the UK. I pay monthly.