That political discussion with occasional humour thread

There are so many there that I have enjoyed the company of over many miles, months and 'till death us do part.

Loved the Spaniels and the Greyhound, but, what no Rottweiler? or Dobermann? While I adored the first 2 in this para, I am full of sadness for the undeserved reputation of the 2 last mentioned who, as much as any other breed, have the gentleness of companionship while looking the part of deterrence for those non-canines who would do us harm.

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Humour / Trolling?
The Nobel Peace Prize is to announced next week. Some have been suggesting that Mark Carney would be a suitable recipient, but he hasn’t been nominated.
Trump however has been nominated ! (not by FIFA either) 2026 Nobel Peace Prize - Wikipedia

Nearer home Daniel Thomas (Danni Tommo) is on remand until next year for the alleged knife attack on a small boat.
How about this short video?

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That does have a certain appeal. :joy:

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Serious question - is that how you see those who are not silent about Israels’ genocide?

Go on ! It is funny.

And makes a serious point: Some from the extremes of any and all viewpoints will twist anything to suit their own viewpoint.

Is it? Maybe I’m just humourless but it went right past me.

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I’ll answer that (you may not like my answer) if you tell me why you think Hamas committed the October 7 atrocities, since anyone would have known that the Israeli response would be what it was?

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I’m not sure if this is genius or madness but the Tories have done their own version of the Bayeux Tapestry. I’ll not sure how well the link will work but it’s on page 2.

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How childish, and they want to run the country ( most likely further down)

I think that describes the current leader very well.

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Badenoch seems out of the loop.

It seems most of the UK thinks Brexit was a flop. Some surveys put many RefUK Ltd voters wanting closed ties with the EU.
She is after moving further away! Seems bizarre.

Badenoch, to me, seems to go between being fairly rational and being completely bonkers. Having got rid of the nutters and horrors, she could have revived the Tories as a right-of-centre party, except that Labour have snaffled many of the policies typical of that part of the spectrum.

As for the EU, it would have been an obvious way of distinguishing the Conservatives from Reform/Restore.

Apparently the UK economy is actually doing better than other EU countries despite Brexit.

Not sure why answering that should be considered problematic or some kind of challenge?
I think there were a combination of factors, some of which I could support with links, others are supposition on my part.

Main drivers:
Hamas were becoming decreasingly relevant in the struggle against Israel particularly, and the world in general. That was partly a result of the Palestinians not having a single united voice thanks to their failure to eliminate the PLO and Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, partly due to major world events like the war in Ukraine. Another suicide bomber, another shooting, it all wasn’t a big deal any more.

Following on, eyes were elsewhere, and terrorism needs the oxygen of attention to thrive and succeed. In order to be noticed they had to commit an act of such utter barbarity that it would be more significant than a war in Europe involving a former superpower.

Hamas didn’t really believe Israel would do what they did as extensively and comprehensively as they have. To me, the evidence is that they weren’t sufficiently prepared for Israel’s onslaught, and even though they had an extensive network of underground facilities they were quite unable to effectively resist. Not only that, but the hostages they took offered no effective protection, and they weren’t prepared to start killing hostages in order to stop Israel. As we have observed they are unhesitatingly brutal, and would, I am sure, have used the hostages much more effectively and expendably if they had really thought Israel would attack as they did. After the first few days their ability to coordinate and plan seemed to effectively disappear.

Hamas expected the world to step in and stop a genocide event, rather than covertly continue supplying arms and support.

Israel already had a long history brutality and oppression to the Palestinian people, and there was enormous resentment and hatred for how they had been treated. It wasn’t just a publicity stunt, but rather a venting of feelings and finally a chance to really hurt the hated oppressor. Revenge is a strong and all-consuming driver that can make people disregard what their acts may cost them later.

The lives of Palestinian ‘martyrs’ are expendable on the ‘path to victory’.

Other, possibly tenuous reasons:
World circumstances were enabling. Russia wanted a distraction from Ukraine, Iran wanted a chance to hit Israel, North Korea might have seen it as a chance to hit an American ally: there may have been quiet encouragement, intel, materiel provided, other resources including possibly finance.

The Israeli right wanted an event like this to happen that would allow them to finish the Palestinian problem in an ultimate solution. To that end they did not raid the build-up of materiel (what would Palestinians want with hang gliders in Gaza city for heavens sake???) or the training runs that were reported as having been visibly performed in front of Israeli surveillance. This may have given an expectation that the all-seeing all-knowing Israeli forces were becoming weak and complacent, and that it would be a walk-over (as it was at the time).

Multiple groups were involved in the attack, and not just Hamas: Islamic Jihad is one I remember, but I think there may have been others mentioned. Some of these groups took hostages and held them separately. There may have been a degree of one group trying to out-extreme then other without counting the cost when planning AND executing the attack - mass rape? Really?

There’s probably additional things that I’ve forgotten to add, but that’s enough.

By what measures, I wonder?

I am pretty sure even I could find a few, over different time scales, and find some measures showing tbe opposite. There is no all embracing figute of economic “success”
but even so
 So what?
.
Surely the measure of success is
UK in EU
vs
UK out of EU.

Clearly it is impossible to measure accurately the actual course taken, against a path not taken, but the concensus seems to be, we are now worse off than be would have been, had we remained.

I agree with some of that.

Chose promise chose due, I think that most of the anti-Israel/pro-Palestine lobby see their beliefs as making them good people, as part of their identity. Theirs is an emotional reaction, rather than a rational one; like bad religion, it depends on the use of certain words (like « genocide ») and the prohibition of any expression of an alternative view.

The only way the contradiction (supporting a vile regime like Hamas, which is supported by 60% of the Palestinian population, while agonising over how « repressed » gay and trans people are in the West and conveniently ignoring how Islamic regimes like Hamas, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc treat gay and trans people) can be sustained is by turning their attention to hating Israel.

Whether you, or others here, are like that, I’m not sure. But calling something « genocide » when that term has a particular legal definition which includes a specific intent (https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/when_to_refer_to_a_situation_as_genocide_brief_guidance_note.pdf) is begging the question.

That’s what remainers didn’t understand, and therefore never addressed: the idea that being financially worse off was a price worth paying for being out of the EU. I have several friends who think like that. It may be that they are unpersuadable - for them, it was clearly about identity and emotion; weirdly, not one owned a black Labrador - but no one ever thought to try.

Seems to me that “Remain”, were too honest.*
They said “Look, the EU is not perfect. It is a bit shit, but we reckon it is better than being out”.
However “Leave” said “All ups and no downs” and “We won’t actually leave the cutoms union” etc etc.
Well
 we alÄș know where the votes went.