The Annual UK Winter Fuel Allowance for the Over-60s

Since when have you needed a photo to post?

You can scream and shout as much as you like,I still think the winter fuel allowance should only be paid to UK residencents,once you have left the country you shouldn't be allowed the extras,no matter how much you have paid into the system,reason is as I said before you have chosen to live in another country.

Excellent Bruce! Reminds me of my Dad- he were from 'arrogate - reet posh! They had't roof, shoes, meat and t'all including smart woodint'hole! Mind you he never got no pension- died at 61.

Don’t forget this,also, Richard:

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You’re right there, Obadiah.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Who’d have thought thirty year ago we’d all be sittin’ here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o’ tea.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
A cup o’ cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In a cracked cup, an’ all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, “Money doesn’t buy you happiness, son”.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, ‘e was right.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, ‘e was.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
I was happier then and I had nothin’. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, ‘alf the floor was missing, and we were all ‘uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t’ corridor!
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we used to dream of livin’ in a corridor! Would ha’ been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, when I say ‘house’ it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
We were evicted from our ‘ole in the ground; we ‘ad to go and live in a lake.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t’ shoebox in t’ middle o’ road.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Cardboard box?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t’ mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi’ his belt.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o’clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of ‘ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to ‘ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o’clock at night and lick road clean wit’ tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit’ bread knife.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o’clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that … they won’t believe you.
ALL:
They won’t!

Richar when i first read your coments i thought thoughts that couldnt be put on paper SPONGING is something i have NEVER done working all my life served an apprenticeship on poor wages my father got me up one morning at 4am to walk to work as the buses were on strike, 6 miles to the railway station to catch the train , those that havent had or got the chance to move here probably almost certainly dont want to i can take you to a public house in the uk where the same people sit in the same seat or place at the bar day after day why because they want nothing more from life but to be kept in beer money by the state my brother in law is one of them, please dont tar us all with the same brush , do i detect a touch of jealousy here because you left years ago dont recieve anything now feel bitter about those who do

Richard, as I said before, if you do not want your WFA, to appease your conscience, you can give to someone who really needs it. As for pensions, so many government employees, such as teachers, retire at 55, 10 years before their pensions mature. It is that last 10 years that the benefits accrue so the rest of the workers have to cough up to pay for them. When we moved to France 8 years ago we bought a house for £350,000 and then spent a considerable sum on the renovation. We buy all our requirements in France (except for inkjet replacements!) and have run residentail art courses on which we had mainly clients from outside the Eurozone. We have probably, with them and the many family visitors, contributed going on for a million pounds into the French economy.

My points exactly David... adding some important points. I didn't use NHS either, bar necessary trips to GPs for vaccinations and so on, but never a burden. This year I have used up tens of thousands of Euros in the health system here and they are not moaning at me and I have two children being educated... For all of that, I paid for my own pension and all that goes with it there and they should pay it, not somebody else...

Richard seems to be missing quite a bit of the argument. Many British expats in France contributed income tax, NIC etc in the UK fully in the UK during a full length working life. Many, including me, are still paying UK income tax as well, incidentally as paying some additional taxes in France. In addition the families of some will fall in to pay inheritance tax in the UK or in France or in both. The Court reasoned that the WFP was part of an overall pension entitlement; French state pensions are generally higher than the UK ones. Yes we chose to live in France but many did so to release some UK capital and live cheaper in France. It was not necessarily a climate choice. Incidentally on the subject of the NHS I did not use it at all for about 25 years in the UK, preferring to go privately and infact my children were educated privately too so I was not exactly a huge burden on the state. Since I have used the French health sytem a great deal but as pointed out that is re-imbursed by the UK. My British daughter is now being educated by the French state at their cost and without complaint and with gratitude from me. We are defended in France by their military. Judging from his family name it would seem that Richard's family probably had reason to thank Britain for it's hospitality too. My own family certainly did after their escape from East Prussia. Sponging is simply not an appropriate way to describe entitlement to the WFP.

Jayne, you may be perfectly right but let's not have assumptions why people joined SFN. Debate is quite alright, aspersions contribute very little. But good point on the pcture. Richard, please!

Much of what Jayne is saying is right. I certainly did move after my 6oth birthday when the WFA had already been paid to me once. I cancelled, and wrongly it would appear, all benefits when I can here. In trtuh I cannot afford to. I have paid into the system most, but not all, of my working life but not here in France. So who pays me pension, etc. WFA is simply as supplement to pesnsion. I find it odd that it begins at 60 rather than 65 but who knows what reasoning drives political decisions like that? Where then should the many people like me turn?

It is not a case, for many of us at least, to 'run away' from the UK. Sure, a house may be sold to buy a cheaper French one, but then the disadvantages such as higher running and repair costs render that a bad option. I too have doubts about those who can afford to have a home here and keep one in the UK. For most of them £200 is small change and I would be the first to say they should donate it to those who need it more. But that does not apply to all.

Some people are disadvantaged by moving here. I need to work until I fall headlong into my final resting place. If I can find the work, which is becoming increasingly difficult for many reasons. Finding a job, well not an option being older than retirement age in my professional area. I am one of many, I am only using myself as an illustration, on the other hand I have a much young partner who can still generate income and is doing her utmost to do so, we have young children too, so to some extent the scrapings of the barrel people like me receive are supplementary to not much in the first place. Other people are far worse off. People who wanted something 'nice' for once in their lives, left the UK to find it and taking the risk that they would need extra support that they are usually bright enough to assume they will not get.

So they get WFA as a supplement to their pension, a state pension that is lamentably lacking in itself when one gets there and has so many strings attached that it would be interesting to know just how many people get the full amount they are entitled to. People who started work at 15 or 16 are only in the second half of their 60s in some cases and above that all the more common. Some of them paid taxes, 'stamps', social security and all the different names and denominations there have been for half a century! Other people paid 40 to 40+ years. If they are not going to get a return from that from there then where does it come from. France does not and why should they? If some kind of reciprocal agreement set in stone is established at some time then naturally it should be expected. That is not the case. But should 'exiled' well off people who are tax dodging, avoiding any kind of contrinbution or could simply afford to retire early get it too? Well, that should be a case by case question. Morally, I would say most should not. But if they have played by the rules and paid into all schemes then it is equally morally reprehensible to deny them.

So, Richard, perhaps putting people in the 'same boat' is not a clever way of arguing because the response will only be anger. I don't think people are exaggerating their status, therefore their anger back to your responses is almost to be expected and I am a little surprised that there are not more.

Anyway, said and done. Please do not forget the picture!

Richard; you put everyone in the same boat and that isnt true either. So if you are of retirement age who is going to pay for your retirement? I note you cant find work because of your hearing, so how will you/are you supporting yourself without claiming from the system? We struggled to as you put it "set up" out here and rented initially and we are not rich and we pay in to the French system too.

I think you have just joined this site to be a wind up as you still havent braved up and put a pic of yourself on your profile.

Not everyone wants to move to France so why quote unemployed and poor. People who work hard all their lives should be allowed to do and be where they wish when they retire. No one is sponging or perhaps you are the one that is sponging a system?

There is a reciprocal agreement between the UK and France for the cost of healthcare for retirees living in these countries, ie the UK pays for those of us who live in France and vice versa. As to which actual bucket of money this comes from, I am not sure
@ Richard, your comments about sponging off the UK are offensive to those of us who have paid contributions and now,because of the GAD rules for private pensions are having our income cut considerably, through no fault of our own!

When I chose to leave the uk 20 years ago I gave up certain rights,I don't expect to live in another country and sponge off my old home.By regurgitating the same old those that don't work get this allowance misses the point more.Because you have chosen to live in another country with all its costs of set up and moving that that entails,which those unemployed cannot possibly do,implies that you have enough money to start with.The poor aren't going to be moving any time soon are they.

What do pensioners contribute ? Use the same arguement that is bandied about by the english immigrants in France " we spend our money in the local economy paying VAT on products pay taxe d'habitation taxe foncieres.etc etc" As for not taking money out of the NHS isn't there an agreement between France and the UK about payment?

Richard when you say you say if you live outside the UK and no longer contribute you shouldnt be entitled to more than the basic pension....I think you are missing the point. Those who like my husband who worked till retirement in the UK....worked as a GP and paid pretty hefty taxes for his entire working life, should be as entitled as any other pensioner surely? after all...what does a pensioner contribute? what he doesnt do is to cost the UK NHS money.

Richard that makes me really angry. As John says, those that dont work through choice get it, we have paid in to this system for 40 years or more, plus we are lightening the load on the NHS. People living here still pay tax so what you say is not true. I never claimed anything during my whole time in the UK, often working temp during my hoidays and paying more in to the UK system. I had BUPA through my job so I do not think it is unreasonable to expect the same as any pensionable person in the UK. So exactly what is your position to criticise this.

Richard why was it part of the choice those whose part of the choice was never to work in the uk still get it plus a pension we or most of us have contributed over the last 50 years to the coffers of the uk and as for not contributing tell that to the uk inland revenue quite a few here still pay

Hi Richard - can you post a profile photo please ? Thank you! Cx

My comment about a voucher system is because I don't agree that those who live outside of the UK should be entitled to all the extras other then your basic pension.Hence a system where if you live in the UK you can use the vouchers, if you don't that is/was part of the choice you made when you choose to live outside of the uk.Yes I agree you have paid into the system but as you no longer contribute to that system no extras are available.

We need this dosh to help pay for our air-con bill in Mauritius!

I'm retired and/but with a young family! Can't remember when I last had 8 hours (sleep that is). Maybe you and I differ in that for some reason I would like government to make it easier for people rather than making the processes unfathomable and a sort of self perpetuating cycle of ever increasing cost and less and less benefit to normal folk. In my professional lifetime it became increasingly more difficult for any small to medium size business to actually make money and generate jobs. It's not just me believe me- most of my mates with businesses before or now (those sufferers) think the same. You infact condemn yourself as you admit that you need to be researching websites AT ALL HOURS and with the time a retired person has to keep up to date. Imagine trying to run a business, dealing with "civil" servants, politicians, employees etc and keep your samity and health! At the same time a few of us did huge amounts of pro bono work just to be kicked in the proverbials!

Richard, can you imagine the bureaucracy that would be involved in that. It would probably have to go to EDF as a high percentage of us use wood burners for heating. Can hardly see the local farmer accepting vouchers :) and we don't have gas here either, not that I would want it.

David, I love your comments and agree wholeheartedly with them, definitely made me smile.

Cant see that being practical we use a small outfit of 2 men plus wives for our wood they would have to sign up to the necessary agrement send off the vouchers and wait for the money ok if its the national gas supplier or a large oil company but for the small outfit to much hassle