The mouse that roared…

“ On Thursday, Liz Truss, the UK foreign secretary, warned Russia that any invasion of Ukraine would only lead to a disaster on the scale of the Soviet-Afghan war.”

Bad as Johnson is, if Truss replaces him………

“ On Friday UK foreign secretary Liz Truss said the Kremlin had “not learned the lessons of history” and warned of a post-invasion “terrible quagmire and loss of life, as we know from the Soviet-Afghan war and the conflict in Chechnya”.

I guess Liz hasn’t learnt the lessons of WWII.

My understanding is that the Ukrainians understand that they cannot prevent a full scale Russian invasion if that is what Putin decides to do, and so they have prepared to fight an ongoing guerilla campaign post-invasion. They seem to think that if they send enough coffins back to Moscow, then the Russians will eventually withdraw as they did from Afghanistan.

Well, I’m no expert but from my perspective the US is 100% at fault here. The US has driven the idea that Ukraine should be able to join NATO (just as they drove the idea that Turkey should join the EU). Now, Kennedy was a hero because he faced down the USSR in the Cuban missile crises, but NATO missiles in Ukraine are OK :thinking: I wonder how Russian missiles in Mexico would go down?

The situation in Afghanistan was complex but the mujahideen resistance to the Russians was armed and funded by the US. Then the dog (bin Laden) they had nurtured turned on them and voilà 9/11, an own goal.

In recent times the US has fucked up in the Middle East and Afghanistan and then run away.

We don’t need them to fuck up Europe and I don’t want Biden deciding my future, We should be at the table for all the discussions.


What does Germany think? This has always been their backyard.

Germany’s view on military strength is complex. Obviously history plays a part but also the cost. It’s time for Germany to stop hiding behind the historical issue and start to pay for its defence (for once Trump was right).

Well, we need to let them. Germany remilitarising was banned since WWII till relatively recently, wasn’t it?

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IMO we need a strong EU Karen. Costly, but the sooner the better. Personally, I don’t care what the US thinks about anything, I care about what we, Europeans, think.

As you say it seems a certain great power would aim to have a proxy war on a different continent than their own. Still need to keep an eye out on NorthK and Yemen as well as the big one in the other direction

Dictators don’t discuss or negotiate they dictate, hence the name. Putin has to keep throwing his weight around to keep in power and his current aim is to restore the Russian empire to it’s former glory.

Like it or not Europe needs the US help/support because it is too weak to stand up to Putin.

It is extraordinary how Germany has played into Russia’s hands with the gas pipeline.

It would require a re write of the German constitution. Germanys military is only allowed a defensive role. To protect Germany… any conflict abroad they are allowed logistical and humanitarian support but not to pick up guns.
Even the sale of arms to conflict zones is a political minefield in Germany. Hence - for now the politicians are keeping a low profile

If that were the case for all countries that would solve so many problems.

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I’m not an admirer of Liz Truss, I suppose she must have some, however, I don’t get your point. She is stating the “bleeding obvious” is she not? I don’t detect any kind of ultimatum. She does not appear to be saying: “If you invade the Ukraine we will do this……”

A pipeline already exists and is used to get gas to Germany. Nord stream 2 runs paralel and would increase capacity. It has been very controversial in Germany as well. Not sure if it will be used in the near future and it is certainly a ‘pressure point’ in German/Russian relations. It is not only in Germany’s interest to get gas from Russia - from the terminal in Germany gas from Russia enters half of western Europe.

Most popular minister with the grass roots they say. How dispiriting is that? :roll_eyes:

I have to admit I’m not sure what she’s saying. It seems to be, that if Russia invaded the Ukraine then the US will arm and fund Ukrainian resistance fighters who, having ousted the Russians, will hijack aircraft and fly them into skyscrapers in New York.

So, I’m not sure of which "disaster on the scale of the Soviet-Afghan war” she’s talking about. The loss of Russian troops in Afghanistan? The CIA and Saudi funded rise of the Taliban? The impact of same on the Afghan people? The attack by formally US backed bin Laden on 9/11? There’s a lot of disasters to choose from.

On the other hand, she might be just talking bolix, as usual. My real point was that as bad as Johnson is, could Truss not be even worse?

Germans are between a rock and a hard place. One hand accuses them to be cowardly cheapskate for not 'paying’their share and strengthening their military… others would cry wolf if Germany flexed her muscle for wanting to 're create the 3rd Reich…
Not hiding… just being very very aware of bad press


Yes, very difficult, but needs must. Notwithstanding what Putin is, I believe that the EU could have good relations with Russia. Putin, like everything else, will pass and I object to the US fiddling in our backyard. A tug of love over the Ukraine is not in our interests.

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Does that suggest how bad the others are?

Kennedy was no hero of mine, it occurred to me early on that Kruschev had a point with missiles pointing at him from Turkey. The eventual “back down” from Kruschev was not so much that as a similar quid quo pro in Turkey. Kennedy was willing to risk us all for US security.
It all has dangerous reminders of '62 but also of '39.