The Ukraine situation, where will it end?

If that’s REALLY Bellingcat then there’s a high probability it’s true.

BBC picking up the story.

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Triggered by something I heard on the radio the other day, my mind became interested in the Mexican-American war of the 1840s. Many in the USA were opposed to it and one who took part was later to become President, Ulysses S. Grant.

Here’s what he wrote in his memoires many years later:

The U.S. forces had gone from being an army of conquest on the periphery for territory it desired to incorporate, to an invading force in central Mexico, potentially making it an army of long-term occupation. Mexico did not necessarily have to sign a peace treaty but could have continued with long-term guerrilla warfare against the U.S. Army. However, it could not expel the invaders, so negotiating a treaty became more necessary.[194] Polk’s wish for a short war of conquest against a perceived weak enemy with no will to fight had turned into a long and bloody conflict in Mexico’s heartland. Negotiating a treaty was in the best interest of the United States.

Also:

Generally, the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation [of Texas] was consummated or not; but not so all of them. For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."[225] Grant also expressed the view that the war against Mexico had brought punishment on the United States in the form of the American Civil War. "The Southern rebellion was largely the outgrowth of the Mexican war. Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions. We got our punishment in the most sanguinary and expensive war of modern times.

Any lessons to be learned for Putin do you think?
Russia may end up keeping Crimea, and acquiring Donbass, but at what cost?

Nothing to do with the wider consequences, but interesting in a way is the fact there is a monument to one John Riley in Galway, donated by the Mexican government. Riley was the leader of the St. Patrick’s Battalion of mainly Irish and German (but a host of other nationalities too) deserters from the US to the Mexican armies. Their reason was they didn’t like their own bad treatment as Catholics and the similar treatment of the mainly Catholic Mexican civilians. Many of them, but not Riley, were subjected to mass execution after the war. Not many people know that, to coin a phrase. Well, I didn’t anyway. :roll_eyes:

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9th May Moscow traditional victory parade over fascism.

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Reading an engrossing academic account of decisions and actions following the breakup of the USSR, NATO expansion and Putin’s rise to power…written before the invasion of Ukraine and published late last year it charts a path that leads to the current situation. Titled: Not an Inch, America, Russia and the making of the Post Cold War Stalemate by M. E. Sarrotte who is the Kravis professor of historical studies at John Hopkins University and member of the Foreign Relations…so not by some hack punting a political view. Really sets things in perspective and worth reading…even if its only excerpts online.

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Whilst ordinary people in the UK are doing their best to aid Ukrainian refugees (this is a picture of my 11 year old Granddaughter’s effort - on her own initiative)


The Home Office and the British Government continue to mumble about how they are “leading the world” but they are not walking the talk as Nick Ferrari’s recent rant on LBC shows. How can these people sleep at night? :angry:

Truly shocking and so disappointing…

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I thought for a second this was referring to Nick Ferrari and thought that I wholeheartedly agree, but then realised and I still wholeheartedly agree!

Since the start of the war in Ukraine, over 4 million people have fled the country. Earlier this month Priti Patel announced a visa application centre had been established en route to Calais for Ukrainians trying to come to the UK. But the centre never existed. Days later, the Home Office said it was actually in Lille, but would not reveal where. Officials then claimed that refugees in Calais could get free Eurostar tickets to travel to the centre — despite the fact that the Eurostar does not stop in Calais. A day later the centre was moved from Lille to a town 30 miles away.

Why has the government response been so chaotic?

Interesting article about China and the Ukraine war:


Source of text below:

Timofey Sergeytsev

We wrote about the inevitability of Ukraine’s denazification as early as last April. We do not need a Nazi, Banderite Ukraine, the enemy of Russia and a tool of the West used to destroy Russia. Today, the denazification issue has taken a practical turn.

Denazification is necessary when a considerable number of population (very likely most of it) has been subjected to the Nazi regime and engaged into its agenda. That is, when the “good people — bad government” hypothesis does not apply. Recognizing this fact forms the backbone of the denazification policy and all its measures, while the fact itself constitutes its subject.

This is the situation Ukraine has found itself in. The fact that the Ukrainian voter was choosing between the “Poroshenko peace” and the “Zelenskyy peace” must not deceive you: Ukrainians were quite happy with the shortest way to peace via a blitzkrieg, which was strongly alluded to by the last two Ukrainian presidents when they were elected. This was the method used to “pacify” home antifascists in Odesa, Kharkiv, Dnipro [the RU original uses the city’s former name “Dnipropetrovsk”] , Mariupol, and other Russian cities — the method of total terror. And ordinary Ukrainians were fine with it. Denazification is a set of actions aimed at the nazified bulk of the population, who technically cannot be directly punished as war criminals.

Those Nazis who took up arms must be destroyed on the battlefield, as many of them as possible. No significant distinction should be made between the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the so-called “nationalist battalions,” as well as the Territorial Defense, who have joined the two other types of military units. They are all equally complicit in the horrendous violence towards civilians, equally complicit in the genocide of the Russian people, and they don’t comply with the laws and customs of war. War criminals and active Nazis must be punished in such a way as to provide an example and a demonstration. A total lustration must be conducted. All organizations involved in Nazi actions must be eliminated and prohibited. However, besides the highest ranks, a significant number of common people are also guilty of being passive Nazis and Nazi accomplices. They supported the Nazi authorities and pandered to them. A just punishment for this part of the population can only be possible through bearing the inevitable hardships of a just war against the Nazi system, waged as carefully and sparingly as possible relates civilians. The further denazification of this bulk of the population will take the form of re-education through ideological repressions (suppression) of Nazi paradigms and a harsh censorship not only in the political sphere but also in the spheres of culture and education. It was through culture and education that the pervasive large-scale Nazification of the population was conducted, ensured by the guarantees of dividends from the Nazi regime victory over Russia, by the Nazi propaganda, internal violence and terror, and the 8-year-long war against the people of Donbas, who have rebelled against the Ukrainian Nazism.

Denazification can only be conducted by the winner, which means (1) their unconditional control over the denazification process and (2) the authority that can ensure such control. For this purpose, a country that is being denazified cannot possess sovereignty. The denazifier state, Russia, cannot take a liberal approach towards denazification. The denazifier ideology cannot be challenged by the guilty party that is being denazified. When Russia admits that Ukraine needs to be denazified, it essentially admits that the Crimea scenario cannot be applied to the whole Ukraine. In all fairness, this scenario was also not possible in the insurgent Donbas in 2014. Only the 8-year-long rebellion against the Nazi violence and terror managed to result in an internal unification and deliberate, explicit, broad-scale refusal of retaining any association with or relation to Ukraine, who has identified itself as a Nazi community.

The period of denazification can take no less than one generation that has to be born, brought upm and mature under the conditions of denazification. The nazification of Ukraine has been going on for more than 30 years — starting from as early as 1989, when Ukrainian nationalism was given legal and legitimate forms of political self-expression and led the movement for “independence”, setting a course for Nazism.

The current nazified Ukraine is characterized by its formlessness and ambivalence, which allow it to disguise Nazism as the aspiration to “independence” and the “European” (Western, pro-American) path of “development” (in reality, to degradation) and claim that “there is no Nazism” in Ukraine, “only few sporadic incidents.” Indeed, there isn’t a main Nazi party, no Führer, no full-fledged racial laws (only a cutdown version in the form of repressions against the Russian language). As a result — no opposition or resistance against the regime.

However, all listed above doesn’t make Ukrainian Nazism a “light version” of the German Nazism of the first half of the 20th century. Quite the opposite: since Ukrainian Nazism is free from such “genre” norms and limitations (which are essentially a product of political technologies), it can spread freely just like a basis for any Nazism — both European and, in its most developed form, the American racism. That’s why there can be no compromise during denazification, as in the case of the “no to NATO, yes to EU” formula. The collective West is in itself the architect, source, and sponsor of Ukrainian Nazism, while the Banderite supporters from Western Ukraine and their “historical memory” is just one of the tools of the nazification of Ukraine. Ukronazism poses a much bigger threat to the world and Russia than the Hitler version of German Nazism.

Apparently, the name “Ukraine” cannot be kept as a title of any fully denazified state entity on the territory liberated from the Nazi regime. The people’s republics, newly created on the territories free from Nazism, must and will develop on the basis of practices of economic self-government and social security, restoration and modernization of systems of essential services for the population.

Their political direction cannot be neutral in practice: the redemption of their guilt before Russia for treating it like an enemy can be manifested only by relying on Russia in the processes of restoration, revival, and development. No “Marshall Plans” can be allowed to happen on these territories. No “neutrality” in the ideological and practical sense that is compatible with denazification can be possible. Individuals and organizations who are to become tools of denazification in the new denazified republics cannot but rely on the direct organizational and force support from Russia.

Denazification will inevitably include de-ukrainization — the rejection of the large-scale artificial inflation of the ethnic component in the self-identification of the population of the historical Malorossiya and Novorossiya territories, which was started by the Soviet authorities. Being a tool of the Communist superpower, this artificial ethnocentrism was not left unclaimed after its fall. It was transferred in its subservient role to a different superpower (the power above states) — the superpower of the West. It needs to be brought back within its natural boundaries and stripped of political functionality.

Unlike, for example, Georgia or the Baltic States, history has proved it impossible for Ukraine to exist as a nation-state, and any attempts to “build” such a nation-state naturally lead to Nazism. Ukrainism is an artificial anti-Russian construct that has no civilizational substance of its own, a subordinate element of an extraneous and alien civilization. Debanderization alone will not be enough for denazification: the Banderite element is only a hand and a screen, a disguise for the European project of the Nazi Ukraine, which is why the denazification of Ukraine means its inevitable de-europeanization.

The Banderite elites must be eliminated; their re-education is impossible. The social “bog,” which has actively and passively supported them through action and inaction, must go through the hardships of war and internalize the lived experience as a historical lesson and the redemption of its guilt. Those who didn’t support the Nazi regime and suffered from it and the war it started in Donbas must be consolidated and organized, must become the backbone of the new authorities, their vertical and horizontal framework. History has shown that the tragedies and dramas of the war time benefit the peoples who were tempted and carried away by their role as the enemy of Russia.

Denazification as a goal of the special military operation within the limits of the operation itself means a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territories from the armed supporters of nazification, the elimination of hard-line Nazis, the imprisonment of war criminals, and the creating of systemic conditions for further denazification in peacetime.

The latter, in its turn, must begin with the establishment of local governments, militia, and defense institutions, cleansed of Nazi elements, the launching on their basis of constituent processes to create a new republican statehood, the integration of this statehood into the close cooperation with the Russian agency on Ukraine denazification (newly established or reorganized on the basis of, for example, Rossotrudnichestvo), the adoption of the republican regulatory framework (legislation) on denazification under Russian control, the definition of boundaries and frameworks for the direct application of Russian law and Russian jurisdiction in the liberated territory in regard to denazification, the establishment of a tribunal for crimes against humanity in the former Ukraine. In this regard, Russia should act as the guardian of the Nuremberg Trials.

All of the above means that in order to achieve the denazification goals, the support of the population is necessary, as well as its transition to the Russian side after its liberation from the terror, violence, and ideological pressure of the Kyiv regime, and after their withdrawal from informational isolation. Of course, it will take some time for people to recover from the shock of military hostilities, to be convinced of Russia’s long-term intentions, meaning “they will not be abandoned.” It’s impossible to foresee exactly in which territories such a mass of the population will constitute a critically needed majority. The “Catholic province” (Western Ukraine, made up of five oblasts) is unlikely to become part of the pro-Russian territories. The exclusion line, however, will be found experimentally. Behind the line, a forcibly neutral and demilitarized Ukraine will remain, with the formally banned Nazism and hostile to Russia. This is where the haters of Russia will go. The threat of an immediate continuation of the military operation in case of non-compliance with the listed requirements must become a guarantee of the preservation of this obsolete Ukraine in a neutral state. Perhaps this will require a permanent Russian military presence on its territory. From the exclusion line to the Russian border, there will be a territory of potential integration into the Russian civilization, which is inherently anti-fascist.

The operation to denazify Ukraine, which began with a military phase, will follow the same logic of stages in peacetime as during the military operation. At each stage, it will be necessary to achieve irreversible changes, which will become the results of the corresponding stage. In this case, the necessary initial steps of denazification can be defined as follows:

— The elimination of armed Nazi formations (which means any armed formations of Ukraine, including the Armed Forces of Ukraine), as well as the military, informational, and educational infrastructure that ensures their activity;

— The establishment of people’s self-government institutions and militia (defense and law enforcement) of the liberated territories to protect the population from the terror of underground Nazi groups;

— The installation of the Russian information space;

— The seizure of educational materials and the prohibition of educational programs at all levels that contain Nazi ideological guidelines;

— Mass investigations aimed to establish personal responsibility for war crimes, crimes against humanity, the spread of Nazi ideology, and support for the Nazi regime;

— Lustration, making the names of accomplices of the Nazi regime public, involving them in forced labor to restore the destroyed infrastructure as punishment for Nazi activities (from among those who have not become subject to the death penalty or imprisonment);

— The adoption at the local level, under the supervision of Russia, of primary normative acts of denazification “from below,” a ban on all types and forms of the revival of Nazi ideology;

— The establishment of memorials, commemorative signs, monuments to the victims of Ukrainian Nazism, perpetuating the memory of the heroes of the struggle against it;

— The inclusion of a set of anti-fascist and denazification norms in the constitutions of the new people’s republics;

— The establishment of permanent denazification institutions for a period of 25 years.

Russia will have no allies in the denazification of Ukraine. Because this is a purely Russian business. And also because it is not just the Bandera version of Nazi Ukraine that will be eradicated. The process will also, and above all, affect Western totalitarianism, the imposed programs of civilizational degradation and disintegration, the mechanisms of subjugation under the superpower of the West and the United States.

In order to put the Ukraine denazification plan into practice, Russia itself will have to finally part with pro-European and pro-Western illusions, acknowledge itself as the last authority in protecting and preserving those values of historical Europe (the Old World) that deserve to preserve and that the West ultimately abandoned, losing the fight for itself. This struggle continued throughout the 20th century and found its expression in the world war and the Russian revolution, which were inextricably linked with each other.

Russia did everything possible to save the West in the 20th century. It implemented the main Western project that constituted an alternative to capitalism, which defeated the nation-states — the Socialist red project. It crushed German Nazism, a monstrous offspring of the crisis of Western civilization. The last act of Russian altruism was its outstretched hand of friendship, for which it received a monstrous blow in the 1990s.

Everything that Russia has done for the West, it has done at its own expense, by making the greatest sacrifices. The West ultimately rejected all these sacrifices, devalued Russia’s contribution to resolving the Western crisis, and decided to take revenge on Russia for the help that it had selflessly provided. From now on, Russia will follow its own way, not worrying about the fate of the West, relying on another part of its heritage — the leadership in the global process of decolonization.

As part of this process, Russia has a high potential for partnerships and alliances with countries that the West has oppressed for centuries and which are not going to put on its yoke again. Without Russian sacrifice and struggle, these countries would not have been liberated. The denazification of Ukraine is at the same time its decolonization, which the population of Ukraine will have to understand as it begins to free itself from the intoxication, temptation, and dependence of the so-called European choice.

  • An extremist organization banned in Russia.

Translation: Ukrainian volunteers

*From: ria dot * ru / 20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html

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Poisson d’avril, Wozza? Or is it too late for that?

Found a similar article on the BBC, I doubt it’s a double bluff.
Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting - BBC News
Also on Der Spiegel Ukraine: Boris Johnson trifft Wolodymyr Selenskyj überraschend in Kiew - DER SPIEGEL

Boris Johnson, fearful of a massacre in the local elections and for his own position accompanies a decent principled, brilliant and brave politician in Kiev.

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My book on the Kindle at the Moment is entitled ‘Cossacks’ and traces their origins back to their emergence as an entity 700 odd years ago.

Very interesting particularly at the moment in view of the events in Ukraine. They weren’t a single body but disparate groups, originally of horsemen (not women, if they wanted to procreate they stole them), normally settled on various rivers. They raided and stole, raped and murdered, and, in times of hardship rented themselves out to whoever would pay them, usually Moscow. As such they weren’t always on the same side but did unite from time to time in a common cause. This was usually against the Turks and the Don Cossacks were at the forefront in opposing them, but also, the Ukraine River Dnipro based Zaporizhzhia Cossacks. Ring a bell? The town of first refuge for the occasional refugee columns from Mariopol.

But, in support of my answer to Olga, way back in this thread when she said that the Russians were not colonisers like the British. Ivan the Terrible used Cossack bands to extend and colonise the vast lands to the east as far as the Pacific with great savagery and real genocide of some of the native groups they encountered. Greed was the cause of this, and compared to the push westwards of the United States in a later century against the indiginous inhabitants.

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On another forum with which I’m involved there’s a member of Ukrainian extraction. They have a family story of Cossacks working for Russia playing football with the head of a family member from 2 generations before him.

Must have taken one hell of a kick to move it - steel toe capped boots ?:rofl::rofl:

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Brings a new perspective on the phrase 'on me ‘ead son’ :open_mouth:

Just read this - very different view from the usual western media perspective - highly recommended:

There’s an English translation here:
https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/?s=09

That’s what I find troubling, it is so different it borders on ‘conspiracy theorism’. He is a prolific author and much of his writing paints pictures that are the polar opposite of the official narrative on various conflicts/incidents, I believe he has suggested that the Skripal poisonings in Salisbury were nothing more than normal ‘food poisoning’ when the world has been told it was a Russian security service plot to kill Skripal and his daughter.