Theresa May’s Brexit Deal Rejected By MPs For A Second Time

Yes Jeremy - but which ones get in your way on a regular basis? Take me, for example, living on mainland Europe - none of the EU laws get in my way.

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Belated birthday wishes Norman :wine_glass::birthday:

After Australia introduced the points system immigration rose.
With all your immigrants having to earn over £30,000 can you tell me please who is going to clean the hospitals, provide everyday care for the elderly, pick the crops etc. etc.?
All the jobs that Brits don’t want to do.

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Don’t agree with some of your opinions Jeremy but 10/10 for your very cool and entertaining retort to the ensuing blow-back. Touch of Rees-Mogg level gentlemanly civility there. Were you at school together? :grinning:

Drop by again when you’re settled back in to chez vous…:hugs:

Wow 79 years old, you look sexy on your pic. I think it is the charcuterie diet. I live in the Baie de Somme on the Opale Coast in the north of France.

Just trying to imagine the advert “come clean our toilets, wipe are arses and then bring in our crops” - when you look at this it does appear that we want cheap labour. I have seen some of the work gangs in the fields of Lincolnshire around Boston - it looked a little like exploitation to me.

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The main issue is that the EU won’t allow it so this in nothing more than a pipe dream or even cherry picking.

I think you’re sorted there Norm (and birthday wishes from moi too).

Simon…that is not the point…it doesn’t matter whether or not we agree, hate or like those rules that are imposed upon us, the point is they are outwith (to use a quaint Scottish expression) our control. And if some schmuck is going to impose laws we disagree with then let them at least be British.

Jane, you have made my point…if we want cleaners because we are too up ourselves to deign to clean our own dunnies (to use a great Aussie expression) then we grant them points thus allowing them entry.

David you have a valid argument there but not really relevant to Brexit.

Finally, Peter I wish my family were in the same tax bracket as RM thus allowing me to have gone to a proper school…sadly no. My boarding school was one of the very worst in the UK…the term before I joined at thirteen a pupil was hung by the neck in the school grounds by another…he survived but I don’t imagine he enjoyed it.

I will return.

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It is valid for me Jeremy. Sending Euro chain gangs out to work - with the gang masters deducting all manner of costs. Modern day slavery in some cases. I also believe if we can’t source the vulnerable from the poorer parts of Europe to work for peanuts it means capitalism can’t continue to race to the bottom when it comes to workers pay.

OK Jeremy - which ones ? Just one example will do…???:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: Come on Jeremy you can do it - can’t you?

Oh …and on a point of order…

… actually the point is the UK instigated, tabled or endorsed 100% of them - whilst also having a power of veto at their disposal.

Anyway…which is the EU law that particularly gets on your tits Jeremy? Share with the group…

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(oh go on… please say straight bananas)!

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None of the laws that eminate from the EU have been ‘imposed’ upon the UK without our will - they have all been agreed with the co-operation of the UK through our membership. Any laws we have not been happy with have usually ended up with a UK opt-out. Freedom of Movement was not ‘forced’ upon the UK - we willing entered into it because, in a saner time, it was realised that it was a force for good.

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My apologies Carl but the statement you made above is simply untrue. The Council of Ministers of the EU uses a system of Qualified Majority Voting in relation to many of its deliberations relating to law making, and between 2009 and 2015 the UK was on the losing side 12.3% of the time. Therefore there have indeed been laws ‘imposed’ on the UK against it’s wishes.
It is only matters relating to foreign affairs, taxation, justice and the EU budget that require unanimity.

Really? I rather tought that a great many things outside what you listed require ‘unanimity’, and I am surprised these didn’t get a mention eg Health é& Safety Practises, Food Standards, Transport Safety - roads, trains, aircraft etc. Antisemitisim, rights to free speech,coercion, false and dangerous products, Child and Animal Welfare, Laws before elected and non-elected governments, Human Rights (although I admit I would like to see some more Human Respnsibilities), Education programmes for Third World Countries, Laws against Dangerous chemicals - etc., etc;
I have said it before, and I have no connection whatsover with the online publication ‘Eurobusiness’ - which happens to be produced in the UK and is a tally and report on EXACTLY what the EU and EC are involved in, and I would defy anyone to say these are not worthwhile - or are impositions on Members.
I wish people everywhere would get their heads out of the yellow press and read the genuine stuff - NON-Propagandist.

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I thought I was the one with the eye problems? Thanks for the remarks though.

The picture I chose this time was of a very special day in my life when I found a stunned, and I thought dying house Martin on the grass outside, my house. In a territory well patrolled by cats, chances of survival nil. I gathered him up in my own warm hands, and was delighted when he recovered. I was even more delighted when he settled on my shoulder and stayed there for over two hours (the photo shows him in that position )I finally wandered down to where I had found him, and he obviously recognised the place, and flew off. A bit of magic, but then again I love animals, generally more than people sorry to say.
I am also a belated Vegetarian, but with occasional lapses, I must confess.
Nobody’s perfect and I don’t even get close!

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Thank you Lily.

I do wish someone would spill the beans as to which ones…??

First of all Jeremy - thanks for coming back with some much more measured posts.

I think Carl dealt with this point - if you join an organisation which involves collective decision making you accept that sometimes the final decision will not reflect the wishes of all the members. Majority voting was, of course, was introduced (and ISTR championed by the UK) because it is impossibly hard to get 28 nations to agree stuff unanimously. If you doubt this consider what happens when any group of more than about 6 individuals is trying to decide what to to or which restaurant to visit for the evening and magnify that up to the scale of 28 nation states trying to decide supranational policy.

This should not be mistaken for loss of sovereignty - it is anything but.

Going it alone and we disover a few things. First that we are a relatively small nation - 21st in world rankings by population (between Thailand and France) with a moderate GDP (5th between France and Germany but 1/10th the size of the US economy and 1/6th the size of the rest of the EU). A 10% drop in GDP (plausible in the face of no deal) would take us to 7th or 8th, about the same as Italy.

This means we are not large enough to force our standards on the world stage - we will end up aligning with the US, |EU or China on trade and trading standards. In fact much of this whole episode has been about leaving the EU and cosying up to the 'States - driven, I have no doubt, by vested financial influences. Quite how good an idea this is with a madman in the Whitehouse I don’t know but the result, ironically, is that we will probably have less control outside the EU than within (where, one should acknowledge we have historically had significant influence.

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Have just watched Philip Hammond say that MV3 may not happen if it is likely to fail, not a done deal then.

Makes a lot of sense if the PM cannot get enough votes to see it through, all thinks could happen if it failed again.