This is where the Corona Virus came from

Written by someone with inside knowkledge and doesn’t write for the DT or the DM - writes mainly for the Spectator and Indy and this is a ‘catch up’.

There’s the truth - and we should ne ver forget in coming months and years exactly WHY the whole world is suffering.

It could be called ‘karma’ …

Dare anyone to read it - and dare anyone to check out links that show the REAL horror of those chinese wet markets.

I really am going to boycott ‘stuff’ from china where possible. Want nothing to do with that country.

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Mmmnn… haven’t opened link as don’t need to see nastiness. However do you remember mad cow disease in the UK caused by feeding the cows sheep’s carcasses? We are not blameless.


I’m sorry but any article with TWO words capitalised in the title, is an immediate FAIL.
Tell me the facts.
Let me decide where to put the emphasis.
If your facts are coherent and convincing you don’t NEED to get SHOUTY.


Mail Online is not even useful as a toilet paper substitute.


Yes it does smear the screen of your ipad.


Anna - sorry - what two words.
And if you want the facts I’ve pointed you in the right direction.
And this reporter writes for the Indy and the Spectator - so any sneering comments about the DM don’t work…
The UK did have mad-cow disease - but so did other countries - but none of that diverts from the fact that china has put the health of the rest of the world at risk, as well as slaughtering endangered species to the point of extinction.
You won’t follow my links - you go and check for yourself.
But it’s the truth.

Well, NOT and MUST are capitalised.

I read it.

I’m not dismissing the facts themselves but I don’t think “one potential origin is the pangolin” is anywhere near a solid enough foundation on which to build such a damning case. This might turn out not to be the origin at all.
Ok the writer is campaigning against live animal markets. But hanging it on the coronavirus peg as if the connection is proved, when it isn’t, is opportunism.


and I don’t think call it the chinese virus is helpful either…


I watched Trump say that yesterday, the guys standing behind him were cringing.


Yes, it could have happened anywhere. And a coronavirus could have jumped from just about any animal to a human. This was predicted to happen sometime, somewhere.

It’s a bit of a stretch to describe Evgeney Lebedev as a writer: he is, however, usually described as “a businessman” and is the owner of the Evening Standard and the Independent and is the (still) Russian son of a former KGB Officer in London, so I imagine it’s not too difficult for him to get a piece published in the DM. Personally, whilst there is some factual support for this article, I would challenge his objectivity in writing it and the DM’s in publishing it.


Whatever about the author, whatever about the “newspaper”, I don’t think there can be any argument that it is Chinese demand that’s driving, amongst others, the Rhino slaughter and that their “wet” markets are an abomination.
Furthermore, much as I dislike Trump and his motives, it would appear that the virus originated in China. Therefor, IMO it is not inaccurate, though somewhat hurtful, to call it, which is going to kill many of us, the Chinese virus.

Touch of the “don’t mention the War” from Xi Jinping?

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I read that there had been a massive push by the Chinese government to encourage the breeding of what are normally wild animals in order to boost local economies within China. One of the reasons the wet markets probably won’t be banned is because doing so will drive them underground to even filthier conditions.

I find the practice utterly horrific and barbaric. But anyone in the west eating factory farmed meat - pork in particular, or foie gras shouldn’t be too quick to throw stones from glass houses. Pointing this out does not mean I in anyway endorse these markets. They need to become obsolete. Just as factory farming in the west needs to be eradicated.

Clearly there needs to be top down governmental as well as grass roots action in China to dissuade and educate when it comes to the devastating effects the demands for some of the ingredients of traditional medicine create.

I support the Animals Asia Foundation who do work for many animals and moon bears in particular. For them education is key and they do amazing work with local communities.

Calling Covid-19 the Chinese virus and tarring everyone with the same brush is not going to help matters. We need to work together to beat these things. Didn’t Chinese scientists make their work on the virus freely available?

Every country has its problems and an us and them mentality helps no one in my humble opinion.


Except the current evidence from some virologists is that the Wuhan out break was what they call a branch outbreak, as were the outbreaks in Italy and Iran. and both of these were not from China but of separate origins. So the virus did not originate in China it came in from elsewhere. Patient zero is as of yet of unknown geographical location - Now the Chinese Government belief (for what it’s worth) is that this came from a virus which escaped from a biological research facility at Fort Detrick in Maryland USA. If this is true we cannot determine. What is true is the late in 2019 the facility was abruptly closed down after a damning report on it’s many cases of containment issues. And a detachment of soldiers from Fort Detrick attended the Military Games which is the joint forces equivalent of the Olympic Games. These were held in Wuhan in October 2019 with nearly 10,000 athletes from over 100 countries.

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I agree entirely, but IMO Xi Jinping doth protest too much. It doesn’t matter what the bloody thing is called.

How about this then -

Part of the report below - you can read in full on the link above -

" Given what’s known about the pace at which viral genomes mutate, if nCoV had been circulating in humans since significantly before the first case was reported on Dec. 8, the 24 genomes would differ more. Applying ballpark rates of viral evolution, Rambaut estimates that the Adam (or Eve) virus from which all others are descended first appeared no earlier than Oct. 30, 2019, and no later than Nov. 29.

The progenitor virus itself was almost certainly one that circulates harmlessly in bats (as SARS does) but has an “intermediate reservoir” in one or more animals that come into contact with people, Andersen said. Presumably, that reservoir is one of the species of animals at the Wuhan market thought to be ground zero for the outbreak. The ancestor of 2019-nCoV existed in that species for some unknown time, never infecting people, until by chance a single virus acquired a mutation that made it capable of jumping into and infecting humans.

The genome sequences suggest that was a one-time-only jump. “The genomes [from the 24 samples] are very uniform,” Andersen said. “If there had been multiple introductions,” including from many different animals, “there would be more genomic diversity. This was a single introduction.”

That means that what’s sustaining the spread is human-to-human transmission (suggesting that closing Wuhan’s animal market is very much an after-the-horse-has-fled-the-barn reaction). "

I’ve also read another scientific report, sadly didn’t ‘keep’, which stated categorically that because of the genome/dna the scientists were in no doubt that this was not, and could not have been created in a laboratory - that it would have been impossible. A nd that was a report by an internationakl team - not American - international.

What purpose is served by promoting the idea that the Covid 19 virus is of Chinese origin, or by using the term Chinese virus?

None, other than to fan the flames of ethnic suspicion, mistrust and hated against the people of China. It is IMO a contemptible thing to do, no less dreadful to spread the infection of xenophobia and conflict than to set off a global plague deliberately.

To imply that this was a deliberate act on the part of the Chinese people or their government is malicious and the product of a seriously disordered mind.


I agree Peter, of course it wasn’t a deliberate act and I don’t think anyone is blaming the Chinese person living the apartment downstairs or down the street for this but I do think that when we come through this, if we come through this, that the behaviour that caused it has to be stopped. Step one in that process is identifying where the behaviour occurred. That, based on all current evidence, is China. They have to suck that up. Trump is wrong to use it’s origin as a political weapon but Xi Jinping is wrong to rise to the bait. He should let it go, it’s true.

Of more concern to me is fact that bullshitters like Trump, Johnson and Morrison are going to cause untold unnecessary deaths. With a doctor daughter in the frontline in Perth and seeing the Aussie regions having to take the initiate as Morrison prevaricates and focuses on the economic rather than the human toll, I wish he has been taken out of office (by any means possible) after he screwed up the bush fires. Watching Ch 4 news Johnson is leading Londoners into a Bergamo type catastrophe, but on an unimaginable scale. The bastard Trump has flipped from “don’t worry about it” to “I’m a war time president”. FFS.


The trouble is that so many of us are products of a “blame culture”.
Hopefully the scientists will eventually trace back exactly how this happened. And the usefulness of that knowledge will be, that we will learn from it and hopefully ensure nothing like this happens again. Not so that we know where to point the finger.
In the meanwhile we should all work together to save our species.


Although China has theoretically stopped the import and sale of endangered species, they continue to be thought of in China as prophylactics and aphrodisiacs and not enough has been done to enforce the existing regulations.
They are continuing to illegally import African rosewood when the rest of the world operates under CITES regulations.
We have had SARS and swine flu because of the lack of hygiene in Chinese markets and people living in too close proximity to domestic animals and now we have Corona virus because they want to eat strange wild species.
I don’t think it is asking too much of the Chinese government that, seeing the restrictions they impose on personal freedom, they do the same to enforce the regulations they have already put in place to keep both themselves and the rest of us safe.