I believe the whole topic of climate change merits a constructive and useful discussion. Not least we can learn from each other what to do, where to go for information. therefore I am starting another thread and I would be deeply grateful please if it could remain gobbledygook / private gossip free, so the discussion flows more easily - the other Thunberg thread still exists for the gg, for those who want/ enjoy it. To start the conversation, the BBC posted a serious article today about the extinction threat to a quarter of UKās mammals. Hereās the link: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49892209
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This is interesting Sue about the 5 Mass Extinctions that have taken place in the Earthās history. Itās thought most of them are caused by climate change but none could have been caused by a specific species.
The science is pretty convincing that the Earth is currently experiencing climate change but I wonder whether it would have occurred anyway and itās merely being accelerated by humans. That doesnāt mean I donāt think we should be doing all we can to curb/reverse the damage done.
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What Iām finding alarming is I feel I can witness the sixth extinction starting IN MY LIFETIME. And how is that possible? For those of us old enough, there was a time driving down to the west country from London our car windscreens would be covered in insects. That doesnāt happen any more. Maybe insects have got clever and avoid major roads.
Moving to France 12 years ago gives me a very clear āstart pointā from which I feel I can observe change. Our first summer the neighouring farmer planted rape and when the field was in flower there was a roar of noise from the hive bees. Since then, the number of hive bees around us has dwindle dramatically.
Our first summer we lay awake at night with the windows open hearing the astonishing sound of dozens of frogs across the valley. Now, we are lucky if we get one or two tree frogs in our drain pipes. Of course this is anecdotal, and there may be all sorts of reasons why this has happened but it worries me - deeply.
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Yes me too! In my nearly 12 years in France (till January this year) I noticed a big increase in extreme weather. Extreme cold spells in winter, extreme heat in summer, extreme winds, extreme rain etc.
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This year in our part of Charente Maritime has been very lacking in insects this year. Normally my windscreen would have murdered countless insects and required regular cleaning but not this year. Usually Iām extremely attractive to mosquitoes and receive many bitesā¦just a handful so far. Far fewer hornets, honey bees, flies etc. I did wonder whether someone had exploded an insecticide bomb 
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It worries me too. When we first arrived in 1992 stone curlews came every year and nested on the ground, calling at night. There were zillions of sparrows, big bumble bees, butterflies on the buddleia, hawk moths, we regularly saw praying mantis, partridges, rabbits, and came across baby rabbits buried by their mums for safety in our sand heaps. There were singing toads, many kites circling overhead at harvest time, bats and glow worms at night. The diminution of wildlife has been very noticeable. I donāt think Iāve seen a wasp this year! We feed the birds but there are fewer than there were. Tractors and pesticides, and farming practices that encourage destruction of hedgerows have contributed, as well as the climate. Seasons are not what they were. We seem now to have longer autumns (Iām not complaining), shorter, warmer winters with fewer sunny days, and long hot very dry summers that start in June after the odd hard frost in April that kills off any chance of fruit later. Some years are better than others of course.
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I now use the phrase āclimate/ecological breakdownā - loss of species might well turn out to be more serious than climate change itself.
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[Wearing my no-gobbledegook tinfoil helmet, folks!]
What convinces me as much as the broad and urgent scientific consensus on climate/ecological breakdown (
@Geof_Cox) is the profound seriousness with which the younger generation take ecological breakdown, and the degradation of the natural environment.
Our own children are thus disposed, although they are all over 40, and are parsimonious, thrifty and low-consumption adults, and have been since childhood.
They attribute this as much to death spiral of compulsive consumerism as to anything scientific, although they are intelligent and well educated.
It is my sense, and I think theirs, that they have a fine personal attunement to the earth, the world, and living things, and feel itās pain through their pores .
The animals, birds, insects and other life-forms feel it too. They are in survival mode. As fellow gobbledegook practitioner @anon78757855 has pointedly said, a few will survive Armageddon, they always do.
Call this gobbledegook if you like, but I sense it is widespread amongst the generation who will inherit our damaged world, and donāt necessarily need to read research papers to know how things stand (if not for much longer).
Your opinions and comments eagerly awaited.
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My italicisation added to Sueās comment above.
I applaud this opening statement because above all I think we are sensate beings and need to trust our feelings (not just our emotional reactions I stress) and be guided by them in a critical, discriminating and collaborative way.
Non-scientists can be schooled in a rigorous cooperative research paradigm, and should be. The schools and universities should promote this, but reductionist science has a tight grip on research, and promotes the untruth that the academic route to research via the graduate ladder is the only way to acceptable knowledge.
I challenge that. There is merit in the road less travelled, if wisely trod.
Chris Iām a firm believer that we need to stop being āhoney harvestersā. I know this will upset some very nice, well-meaning people who have hives, but we are (I believe) in our bee-keeping behaviour contributing to the demise of bees. I believe we need to become ābee guardiansā and just leave them alone. They do NOT need us to pillage their honey and ply them with sugar substitutes. They do NOT need their hives to be smoked and constantly opened. They do NOT need one hive adjacent to another so disease can be passed. They do NOT need to be sprayed with chemicals in order to āprevent diseaseā. Heavens above, bees have known what to do to keep their hives healthy for millennia. I briefly joined a bee keeping group (lovely people) but could not understand why they thought it was ok to have the entire hive clustered anxiously round the entrance whilst chemicals were put inside. No wonder queens now live shorter lives. We can blame farmers and their spraying. I think the bee keeping āindustryā also needs to look closer to home. Rant over!
PS: I think honey needs to become an enormously expensive luxury item
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Those early years sound idyllic Fleur. We still have sparrows, bumble bees (and carpenter bees) but fewer hawk moths this year. I think we have your wasps! But earlier in the year there were very few. Iām very interested to hear about the revolution going on in farming practices in the UK. Some farmers no longer plough but just turn over and replant in the stubble - excellent idea. Thereās so much we are beginning to learn about permaculture and how damaging deep digging is. My father used to ādouble digā - we know better these days. Frustrating that we may be learning these better practices so late in the day!
Yes Sue, I agree with your points about farming practices. And Iām encouraged by seeing organic vineyards in France using horse-power, and by tree planting schemes.
If there is one thing that has bothered me for many years itās the declining honeybee population and in fact the decline of all our tiny pollinatorsā¦
I think the huge agri-chemical corporations have much to answer forā¦
Iāve read dystopian articles about the industrial manufacture of tiny drones to mimic pollinators and I feel their creators (if true) have gone completely insaneā¦!
For my part I donāt use any chemicals or weed killers on my half acre and leave the boundaries to grow wild with patches of nettles and āweedsā and cloverā¦and sow wildflower seeds each year around the boundariesā¦
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We have had an abundance of bees and butterflies this year, not so many flies or wasps though, but 2003 was the same. We do live in the middle of nowhere though, definitely a pesticide free zone.
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I had an abundance of grasshoppers and crickets this year for a short periodā¦theyāve gone now and replaced by lots of small black spiders running ahead of my every footstepā¦I had a wasp nest underground for about 3 weeks which I wasnāt sure how to handle except to keep my Collies well away from itā¦!
The last couple of days there are lots of daddy long legs flying into the house but thatās my own fault for mostly having my doors open front and back all hoursā¦x 
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Yes, loads more crickets and grasshoppers than usual this year.
Although we have had some rain now (seems like a lot but probably isnāt ) the Creuse still has a severe water shortage and usage restrictions are continuing until the end of the month at least.
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Flies & mozzies this yearā¦everywhere
Just like last year, & the year before
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Helen, I hope you donāt mind, but Iām reposting your words here because Iām no longer responding on the other thread and your comments merit our attention ā¦
This is what Helen said ā¦
I think that human beings are mostly kind compassionate understanding and for the most part just want to live in peace and harmony with their neighboursā¦their local and global communityā¦and with Mother Nature and our planetā¦
I think that āover populationā is a mythā¦every man woman and child on earth could have half an acre to grow food in Queensland Australia with the rest of the planet left overā¦
In my view itās the grotesque corporate management of earthās natural resourcesā¦the banking system ā¦agenda 21 now agenda 30 and codex alimentarius to name but a few problems with a false matrix that currently overshadows humanityā¦
Viewing our fellow human beings as not worthy of continuation as a speciesā¦not worthy of life and raising families is not the way forward in my humble opinionā¦
I think it is a very worthy view that human beings are mostly as you describe. Unfortunately though, it is this same ākindlyā species that works in the very organisations you decry - banking, agri-chemical, manufacturers of drones, etc etc. Iām not sure Trump or Putin or Bolsonaro, to name but a few fall into your description of humanity, nor indeed the many, many mendacious, corrupt, amoral people who work for such individuals. I would go further. Iām not sure the hunters around where we live fall into your description, from the way they believe they have the ārightā to shoot everything that moves and treat their dogs like s**t.
This is why I believe our species has no inherent ārightā to lord it over our planet and rape this world in appalling ways. We may all be able to fit in Australia with our half acres but the greed I see means that there are many for whom such a way of life would not be enough.
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No I donāt mind at all Sue although Iām sad to see that the first thread has now been lockedā¦Iād have been quite happy following bothā¦
Yes I get your point but I still maintain that most of our species are kind and would help each other rather than cause harm to a fellow human beingā¦
Many people are no doubt working in jobs that maybe force them to go against their internal moral compass but they too have families to take care of and whilst quitting those jobs would be admirable I appreciate itās not an easy decisionā¦
All governments are corporations tooā¦
Iāve not seen anyone in my hamlet mistreating their dogs so canāt really speak to thatā¦
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