I purchased a UK Life Annuity from my SIPP when I retired. I can prove it was a HMRC approved Penaion scheme and all payments were pension contributions where UK Pension taxation rules were applied.
When I file my Tax declaration in France, they are telling me to use Box 1BW. I notice it looks like there is a high amount of social charges due selecting this Box!
When I view the Box 1AS with my annuity figure, it looks like no social charges are due. The description for this box seems applicable for me on the basis the SIPP is the UK equivalent of the French PER/PERP
Can anyone please help me to understand all the available Boxes for UK Life Annuity income, and why and when one is chosen over another?
On a secondary question, if I receive an S1 in the future, will it affect the social charges due for all UK Annuity income, irrespective of the Box?
Personally I would ignore the advice you’ve received and would report your annuity as pension income from overseas ie box 1AM. For me an annuity from the UK is.still a pension. It keeps things simple.
If you have private medical coverage you will not pay social charges on your pension. If you don’t, you will pay about 9% social charges. If you have an S1, you will not pay social charges on your pension/annuity income.
Many thanks for your time in replying and trying to help. I appreciate your assistance, and want to avoid using the wrong box, and paying the incorrect tax and social security charges.
How can one find out more, concerning when to use Box 1AM and Box 1AS?
I have read the translation of the descriptions on the Impots site, but it all seems very ambiguous and unclear for my situation.
Do you have any information about Box 1AS in connection with a UK Life Annuity?
It was a secure message from my Impots space, and it looks to be from the local office. Do have any contact information for English speaking residents, like a phone number?
Under the Duck test (“lf it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s probably similar to a duck”) the difference between a UK annuity and a UK pension is virtually nil, at least from a foreign tax perspective. Hence the advice to report it as a foreign pension. I promise you this isn’t remotely naughty or reckless!
In terms of social charges treatment, as regulars on this forum will know all too recently (!), there are appropriate boxes on a French tax return to ensure that the correct social charges treatment is arrived at. Your ImpĂ´ts office will themselves work out (and bill you) for the social charges due, based on your tax return reporting.
I honestly wouldn’t worry about the pension treatment..There are plenty of well informed folk on this forum who will be able to lead you - blindfolded (!)- to the correct boxes to report for tax (1AM) and social charges purposes when the time comes. If you’re really curious, look at the end of the current thread on French tax returns 2025.
I’m not aware of any English speaking helpline on something as specialist as this, but hopefully this forum will prove to be more than helpful….
It seems to me that your tax office has lost the plot. “La case 1BM ne peut être servie car la convention fiscale germano-britannique”. They need to address the french UK dual tax treaty not the German french treaty”.
In my view you should use the tick box that in your view (after advice here) best matches your circumstances to your best advantage. Then declare what and why you did it, your reasoning and your conclusion in a Mention Expresse or direct message to the Impots. Over the last 7 years I have never had a reply unless I asked a direct question. So don’t pose any questions, make clear explanations, justifications. I suspect you are agonising over something that is not an issue. The Impots are really happy that I declare our incomes in a manner that they can understand, that is consistent year to year and demonstrates inflation (except I explore exchange rate approaches each year, and choose the one that finds the best result for us each year, with a different explanation each year!) . I do spend about 3 days a year tracking every entry against each box in a spreadsheet to ensure that it shows a consistent upwards inflation linked value. and where it does not I can explain why if ever challenged. No challenges to date.ps I believe that is the approach taken by all rational french tax payers and so the approach the Impots hope and look for. Pps collectively we UK expats inject millions of euros into a struggling french economy often into the most fragile rural areas. The Impots in a region are aware of that. When we first applied pre Brexit for residency at the Prefecture the foctionnaire in front of me gasped and showed our income to her colleague. It’s not big In UK terms, 20 years of a teachers pension plus DWP. But compared to the average french pension (and without all the hidden cash only work of my neighbours it appears substantial). If you can clearly justify your entries, and choose those in your best interests, you are being rational.
Personally we are careful to use exactly the same methodology each year so as not to trigger a control. Reading up about the way these random controls happen it seems that changes from one year to the next are a common trigger. And having had one I don’t want another.
Fair point. But no triggers yet. I have explained the reasoning, either bank de France, bank of England, or UK govt monthly stats each year. I suspect many french would game the situation the same way, and it is probably allowed for.
That is exactly the approach that we were taught as young professional advisers by our highly experienced partners. Do your research, tell the tax officials (in my case) why you’ve adopted the particular tax treatment or position with full reasoning, never ask them a direct question about it, and implicitly invite them to agree. It invariably worked.
