UK General Election 2024

I too started putting money into a personal pension scheme in my 20s and am very glad I did.

I have never earned a lot of money so my contributions to it have been fairly low - but at least they have ben consistent and there is now a pot to draw on when I retire in a few years’ time.

It’s never to late to start!

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Ooohhh, dangerous territory :slight_smile:

So did I. But then, being feckless, I took it out again and spent it!

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I was encouraged as a Post Office Telephones apprentice to join the final salary scheme at 18. Without that encouragement I doubt I would have bothered until I was quite a bit older. In the last few years at work I was able to put a lot of my salary into AVCs. It seemed to me I either paid tax or built up my pension. Some of us received ‘compensation’ for receiving less than the minimum wage during this period! The fact that it from choice seemed to matter little.

I only post this because it amuses me! It’s apt, if that’s the right word.

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Trebles all round, as they say in Private Eye :tumbler_glass:

" Nothing in his life became him like the leaving of it"

Good speech by Sunak.

@Ally Yes, agree. However, whoever you vote(d) for it is distressing to have a government in power, and really total power, to do whatever it pleases when it got only 33% of those who voted which was only 60%. So, on 33% of those who voted Labour obtained 69% of the seats. If my maths is correct. Meaning the UK is being governed, as is often the case, by a minority; whereas the majority abstained or voted against them. Seems to me this is not a reasonable representation of the public voting. Electoral reform is going to have to happen if the Conservative - Labour swings are going to stop and the bigger swathe of the public gets fair representation. No wonder turnout was poor, what is the point in voting if you always get the same and no chance of your vote counting.

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No government is going to change it when they’ve just won a huge majority which is entirely dependent on the current system.

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Have to agree - I can’t see Starmer addressing this.

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The Lib Dems increased their vote dramatically under first past the post.
PR , although representing the true feelings of the electorate, can lead to fractured government.

An interesting chart…

They didn’t increase their vote though - it actually fell from 3,696,419 to 3,519,163 though it rose slightly as a %age of the votes cast (11.6% to 12.2%).

What they did do (and Labour also did this) was to concentrate on seats where they had a good chance of victory. The fact that people were much more willing to vote tactically helped as well.

I understand, I think, what Jane was getting at, in that they have enormously increased their presence in the HoC. PR might have reduced their seats slightly, but given Reform a huge boost.

According to the Electoral Reform Society, the Lib Dems would have benefited but not as much as Reform Ltd

Of course, this is based on how people voted under FPTP and the results would have undoubtedly been different had people voted under PR.

The difficulty with estimates of “what would have happened under PR” is that tactical voting plays a part in FPTP elections, especially this last one, precisely due to the absence of PR!

So while lots of Tory voters switched to Reform and the LibDems this time, if we had had PR they would arguably not have needed to, at least not in such numbers, as the chance of their preferred Party gaining a seat would have increased.

The PR system also diminishes the “local candidate effect” to some extent - under FPTP a locally popular or high-profile MP can squeak a victory (e.g. Jeremy Hunt) against the trend of his or her Party.

PR produces a more diverse legislature (politically speaking), and often requires formal or informal coalitions to make a Government, rather than the duopoly we have now, in which each major party contains internal coalitions which are less visible.

No political system is perfect of course - yes PR based systems are accused of producing “fractured government”, but that can happen with the current system, as we have seen over the last 14 years where the “One Nation” Tories who sued to dominate the party have been at war with the ERG / right wing faction - with the latter gaining the upper hand in the last few years.

ETA: another thought - With PR, voting becomes more about expressing a preference for the type of Government you would like, rather than making a choice between two maybe sub-optimal choices for the next Government. It’s a more indirect way of using the franchise, but is more nuanced in its result, and forces politicians to seek compromise instead of bashing on with a set of policies “because we have a mandate”. And as we have seen with the Tories since 2010, and especially since the EU referendum, they can decide what that “mandate” represents - particularly egregious in the case of the EU referendum as Vote Leave promised a soft Brexit (staying in the Single Market etc.) but then delivered a very hard version only just short of “no deal”.

Yes - my point was mainly that they had done so without much of a change in their vote by dint of getting people to vote LibDem where it counted.

I think tactical voting has only just come to the wider public conciousness - driven by the desire to get rid of the Tories. It was sort-of floated in 2019 but not very effectively but really took off in 2024.

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Agreed - thoguh I think it’s always been there to some extent; but this time there were campaigns and websites set up to encourage it etc.

There were there in 2019 - but I think at that point people were blinded by Johnson’s “oven ready” deal and how much they disliked Corbyn.

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Interesting article in The Guardian talking to young Tories. Seems even they realise this focus on national service, pensions and culture wars ‘what is a woman’ ‘mutilating kids’ stuff is absolutely toxic to all but the oldest voters and and most hardcore existing Tory voters, who as they point out won’t be around to vote for the party much longer.

“If the party doesn’t start talking to young people, it’s going to be wiped out in the next 10-15 years,” says Adam Wildsmith, a 23-year-old from Durham who is deputy director of Blue Beyond, a grassroots group for young Conservatives.

many young Tories were frustrated with policy announcements clearly aimed squarely at older generations: the triple-lock pension, national service for the young. “It was increasingly difficult to defend – and just tone deaf when we are all worried about housing, jobs, cost of living,” says Wildsmith.

He thought Braverman’s speech in Washington, in which she made offensive comments about the LGBT Pride flag, was “despicable”, and the focus on culture war issues during the campaign “out of touch and cruel”.

“The party needs to focus on things for working-age people – graduate salaries, student debt repayments, housebuilding,” he says. “But I don’t think people in the party understand that, because they’re overwhelmingly old. I don’t think they understand the existential threat.”

Very sensible points all round, it will be interesting whether the party, and the media barons who still have so much sway over the Tory (and Republican over the ocean) policy and tone direction will choose long term success with the next generation or stick with the extreme policies that plays well with the old and the fringes and risk alienating generations of voters who they will desperately need soon.