UK NI Contributions and French Declaration of Revenue

presque donné :wink:

If you are working in France in some form or another that will entitle you to pay Class 2 NI contributions to top up your UK pension rather than the far more costly Class 3 contributions.

National Insurance contributions are a tax on earned income paid by those below pension age. Voluntary National Insurance contributions are not a tax because you choose to pay them to boost your pension.

As Grahame says if you are employed or self-employed abroad then you can pay Class 2 NI contributions at about £150 for each additional year. This is the investment bargain of the century as each additional year buys you an extra £250/year pension. With average life expectancy that’s worth over £5,000. Payback time is about 7 months. It’s all explained in the HMRC leaflet NI38 “Social Security abroad” https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/832814/NI38.pdf

NI most definitely is a tax. It’s levied on earned income for those below state pension age. The OP won’t be able to claim it against French tax because he would be making voluntary NI contributions not being taxed on earnings.

Actually, Nigel, it isn’t. It is a charge/contribution which confers rights to a pension, largely, and is only paid on earned income. Anyone deriving their income from other sources won’t pay it. If you don’t have enough contributions then you don’t get a full pension. NI contributions, compulsory or voluntary, are not available for relief under the DTT with France or any other country.
Izzy x

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Thanks Nigel, Good info and thanks for the link.

You live & learn. For a worker in the UK National Insurance is a de facto income tax levied at 12% & 2% for those over high rate income tax threshold & not paying NI is a welcome bonus for those like me who are past pension age but still working full time.

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I agree, Nigel, that workers (employed and self-employed) just see it as a tax because that’s what it feels like. As you say, once you reach state pension age you don’t have to pay anymore but your employer still has to pay their contributions. I believe in France the subject of social contributions is much trickier and payable on all sorts of income but others on here know all about that.
Izzy x

But a state pension (includes military, local government pensions) in the UK does not attract tax in France althought it does count to you overall income and thus what you tax liability would be in France.

This is all covered in the UK/France (double) taxation treaty.

No. A state pension does attract tax in France. What you are talking about are Government pensions, some/most of which don’t attract tax in France due to the tax treaty - but not all of those either. There are a few that are taxed in France only for French residents.

This is the full list should you wish to know

The rules of the UK-France Double Taxation Convention (& I think of most dual taxation treaties) are that pensions derived from employment by central or local government are taxed in the country of origin. In the UK this includes civil servants, military, local council, teachers, firemen, police but not the NHS (there are some exceptions).
An exception to this rule is when the recipient of the pension is a national of the other state. If Brit works as a fireman in the UK then retires to France his pension is taxed in the UK. If a French national works as a fireman in the UK then retires to France his pension is taxed in France.

Here is a link to the UK-France Double Taxation Convention. Article 19 deals with Government pensions. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/496672/france_dtc_-_in_force.pdf

Jane,

Having dealt with my father-in-laws pensions while he lived here and now my own I can confirm that state/government pensions don’t attract tax in France and are taxed at source by the UK.

In my father-in-law’s case that included his old-age pension, his military pension and his local government pension.

However, the pensions do count towards total income and thus can affect what tax is payable on any other income - rental, company/private pension etc.

I’ve recently checked this as my own old-age pension kicked in at the start of this year.

Grahame Pigney

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Well OH’s state pension is taxed here. My government pension isn’t.

Isn’t it all about how you declare and what you declare in France?
Like @JaneJones our state pensions are taxed here and our Govt pensions are not (but nonetheless declared) as the total falls below the French tax threshold. But they are declared. HMRC determine whether the Govt pension is taxable or not and what tax is due in the UK (if any).