Use of the phrase "The French'....! AP get into hot water

AP = Associated Press…

Ah…
AP = US newswire Associated Press… (I learn something everyday… ;))

A timely wakeup call to the politically incorrect :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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It’s okay, it’s easy to fix: just tack on the word “community” :wink:

Ironic that a man representing the Associated Press , should make his comments when addressing a newspaper entitled, in translation, ‘The World’.

And since when did any American person or organisation become ‘the gold standard for English-speaking journalism’ ? :astonished: :rofl:

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People with Frenchness…

In excellent company - “the poor, the mentally ill, the French, the disabled,…”
:hugs:

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Or even “people of tricolore”?

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The article looks like linking france with poor, mentally ill etc OK ‘college educated’ also- remember freedom fries?

but even more - who is ‘the french’ - does it include morrocans, algerians, english? - Americans

How about ‘people who live in france’ (lets segue legally)

Or how about ‘Us’

Just saying…

One wonders if AP would feel the same way about foreign press agencies referring to ‘the Americans’

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Ooh Doc, you’ve pinged young American into my head - so good!

All night
He wants the young American
Young American, young American
He wants the young American
All right (all right)
Well, he wants the young American

and (for info)…
Do you remember, your President Nixon? (ooh)
Do you remember, the bills you have to pay?
Or even yesterday?

That’s it, I’m off to put the album on the deck, Mme will kill me for waking her up :open_mouth:

and of course which translation of “the French”?

jeune français

jeune française

January 27, 2023
By Roger Cohen

PARIS — As an exercise in style, the tweet from The Associated Press Stylebook appeared to strain taste and diplomacy: “We recommend avoiding general and often dehumanizing ‘the’ labels such as the poor, the mentally ill, the French, the disabled, the college educated.”

At least it looked offensive to the French, or perhaps rather to people of Frenchness, or people with Gallic inclinations, or people under the influence of French civilization. The French noted that they had been placed between the “mentally ill” and the “disabled.”

Certainly, the French Embassy in the United States reacted with indignation on Thursday to the A.P. tweet. It published a spoof on Twitter suggesting that it had renamed itself “the Embassy of Frenchness in the United States.”

“We just wondered what the alternative to the French would be,” said Pascal Confavreux, the embassy spokesman. “I mean, really.” Perhaps, as Ben Collins, an NBC journalist, suggested, “people experiencing a croque-monsieur.”

With the A.P. tweet registering 23 million views, 18,000 retweets and cascades of mockery, the news agency decided Friday to reverse course. It issued a statement calling its recommendation an “inappropriate” suggestion that had “caused unintended offense.”

A second A.P. tweet removed the reference to “the French” without explaining why writing “the college educated,” for example, could be construed as “dehumanizing.”

The AP stylebook, a compilation of best writing practices, is a reference for many American journalists and other writers. But the point it appeared to be laboring to make about facile stereotyping of large groups of people seemed lost in this instance.

Lauren Easton, the vice president of A.P. corporate communications, told the French daily newspaper Le Monde that “the reference to ‘the French,’ as well as the reference to ‘the college educated’ is an effort to show that labels shouldn’t be used for anyone, whether they are traditionally or stereotypically viewed as positive, negative or neutral.”

How “the French” constitutes a “label” left many French people mystified. It is simply who they are. Paula Froke, the editor of the A.P. stylebook, did not respond to a request for comment.

Why exactly The Associated Press chose the French to illustrate its point was unclear. The old and vigorous alliance between the United States and France is subject to periodic eruptions as two proud countries with a strong sense they have lessons for the world pursue their respective interests.

But the intermittent fracas, as over the Iraq War or more recently over a nuclear submarine deal with Australia, are generally followed quickly enough by rediscovered love grounded in grudging mutual admiration.

Jeremy McLellan, a comedian, tweeted that “My favorite movie is The Connection with Frenchness,” a reference to “The French Connection.” It appears unlikely that “pass the fries with a touch of Frenchness” would go down well.

Certainly, no French diplomat has ever complained that being called an envoy of “the French” was somehow dehumanizing. In fact, the French rather like being stereotyped as the French, if that is the issue. They undergo Frenchness with considerable relish.

Roger Cohen is the Paris bureau chief of The Times. He was a columnist from 2009 to 2020. He has worked for The Times for more than 30 years and has served as a foreign correspondent and foreign editor.

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Thinking about this some more, I can certainly see why that tone-deaf announcement would have offended the French. Cant often has that effect.

But I wouldn’t talk about “the disabled”: it would be “disabled people”, because the former usage just sounds rude and as if I’m lumping every disabled person into a single category.

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Surely this is just another example of using “blanket terms” … something which we often moan about folk using here on the forum…

“The” blah blah blah… when we should really be saying… “some” blah blah blah…

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@Stella, today I am identifying as a pillow (for which I have the build) and I find your reference to blankets debedlinenising.

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@Porridge

(message from a jockette…)

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We should not take advice on the English language from those whose licence for the use of the Export version expired in 1776.

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I agree, but the trouble is it was our version that they took with them and, unlike us, they kept it. :rofl:

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Surely, the using the French in the original text was meant as a joke?