Voting and integration

General Discussion
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My wife and I have lived in this town for two years. A short time after arriving and settling in, I went to the Mairie and asked if it might be possible to greet the mayor and to introduce ourselves as newcomers. I was told the Mayor did not receive visitors.

My wife and I have shopped locally and used French local artisans and shops exclusively since settling in. We are well known in town and very well received everywhere,. I speak passable French and use it when out and about. I am on good terms with neighbours, and try to be helpful always. I supported my elderly neighbours when he got shingles, drove him to medical appointments in a neighbouring town, and put his eye drops and ointment in six times a day for several weeks.

We attend local events frequently , and attend neighbours funerals, contributing to wreaths and expressions of condolence. I use the library and donate items to local charities for recycling. I’ve participated in discussions on Alzheimers disease.

I get the impression that the mayor is not bothered to get to know us. I’ve shook his hand at remembrance day ceremonies in town, which I attend in solidarity with local ex-combattants (I’m 80). But he’s never showed any personal interest in us. He may be very busy, he has been Mayor for many years and clearly runs the commune very efficiently and in a public-spirited fashion. Maybe he’s biding his time, as is reasonable. We live in the same street, about 500 metres from each others’ seuils.

i did send an email in late summer addressed to the Mayor and expressing our appreciation of the efforts the local gardening team had made to beautify the town (Ville Fleurie ***). I had no acknowledgment, not that one was necessary, but it would have been welcome.

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We live in a small village and within a few weeks of arriving I was persuaded to put my name down to be on the local council! Not thinking that I stood a chance I agreed. I did my six years and although I cannot say that my contributions were in any way outstanding I attended regularly and met people from the village who have become friends. My late husband was on the entertainment committee and spent many an hour frying frites. We voted at the local elections and held our 50th Wedding Anniversary and my 70th Birthday in the new Salle de Fete. My husbands funeral was attended by the Mayor and village friends who have all been supportive. Understandably it is also nice to have some close friends who speak English and we often invite them to join in with the various French Fetes during the year. We integrated well and I still feel happy living here on my own too.

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I’m grateful for this discussion. Though not yet settled in France, upon doing so I feel you’ve encouraged me to apply to volunteer in the community as appropriate. It’s now part of my strategic plan :slight_smile:

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Hello Peter
Thank you for your reply. You have certainly contributed in a big way in a short time. Above and beyond in the case of putting eye drops in ( I have done this for a short while for mum but always had to ‘steel’ myself to do it ) and ointment for your neighbour.
Maybe your mayor is busy but a little courtesy towards others costs nothing. So strange, and sad, that he doesn’t receive visitors from his own commune. My mayor was pleased to see us and has visited my home when I had various questions re renovation. He has also intervened with Orange twice to make sure they repaired my telephone line and called here to make sure it was working.
Never mind it’s his loss and you are getting lots of pleasure by being involved within the commune.
As a by the by, on rememberance day our mayor always makes a point of thanking the British and other ‘foreigners’ who took part during the war to free France and for taking the time to particpate on the 11th. A nice touch. :slight_smile:

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Hello Pat
I am so sorry for your sad loss. Your experience though is very encouraging to others. The fact that you both participated so much within the commune and made many friends during your integration is a positive one. It has enabled you to feel really ‘at home’ to the extent that you are living there on your own too. Long may you continue to enjoy your life in what sounds a lovely friendly village. Thank you for sharing your story with us :slight_smile:

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We were introduced to our Maire by our vendors soon after we arrived (our vendor was an adjoint) and were encouraged to register to vote straight away. When the next local elections were due (2008 ish) I was invited to join a “list” (never thought I’d be elected) but I was, also got reelected last time round. Sometimes I’m unsure of how much I contribute with 10 others having a shouting match , and having no idea what about, not because my French is too bad, but I find it impossible to follow if more than 2 people are speaking (loudly) at the same time.

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Hi
I was voted onto the local council at the last municipal élections.
I am treasurer of the Comite des fetes.
My other half IS a local artisan and works for french and English alike.
We live in a beautiful village in the South West and are extremely proud to be totally integrated. It helps being bilingual…

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Some people don’t want to be totally integrated and that also applies to the locals. Quite a few people like to tuck themselves out of the way, keep their heads down and lead a quiet life.

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I’m not sure I know what “integration” means in this context. To me, it basically just means feeling at home, and being accepted for what I am without needing to reinvent myself or pretend to be what I’m what I’m not. So it’s not something you work at, it’s something that happens naturally, as long as you’ve chosen a place where you fit in.

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I’ve read before that this is often misunderstood in translation. What integration means is that you become involved in the local way of life just as you did in your previous home. It does not mean getting involved in clubs, societies and committees in a way that is not in your character.
I am integrated in my community because I shop here, have my bank accounts in the local bank, my insurances with a local agent, pay attention to local laws and ways of life, and communicate with my neighbours. Talking of neighbours they are not on any local committees and are not members of local associations that do not interest them in the pursuit of integration, just like me then.

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I believe that in the context of applying for citizenship, “integration” also means economically, ie integrated into the French system overall, working for a French company or running a French registered business and dealing with French clients, paying cotisations, whatever. As opposed to keeping yourself outside the system and not planting roots here. Actually I think it’s a horrible word, partly because it’s so vague and partly because it’s so pretentious and impersonal!

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Hello Anna
To repeat …My post is just asking the questions that my French neighbours and friends have posed. The mayor wonders why I am the only English person to have introduced myself and to ask to go on the voting register. My neighbours wonder why the other English in our community don’t seem to want to integrate and participate in events. I do realise that the language ‘barrier’ can be daunting but unless we make the effort to get to know the people around us then we can appear very stand-offish to others.
Why should the word integrate be pretentious? Surely most of us came to France to participate (that may be a better word) in the French way of life and to do that some effort is needed.

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Hello David
I would hope that most of us are here to ‘participate’ in the French way of life, why be here otherwise ! To re-iterate the question was posed by my French friends and neighbours who cannot understand why ‘foreigners’ come here and often stay in their own little groups making no attempt to get to know the locals or even speak the language.
Many of my friends and neighbours are not in groups or clubs that do not interest them, but then again they do not need to make an effort, they are French and this is their country! :slight_smile:

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Let’s be realistic.
There are plenty of Brits, though AFAIK not on this forum, who came here solely because of the perceived “cheap” property and/or cheap wine and/or climate. If they could have bought the same size of house with the same amount of land in the UK, with wine on tap and lots of sunshine, they would have never dreamed of moving to France. They view being surrounded by a foreign language and a foreign culture as part of the price they have to pay.
And that probably answers your neighbours’ question.

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I agree with David Martin. I was never a ‘joiner in’ in the UK-why should I start here? I have my bank accounts here, pay my taxes here, speak to and help my neighbours, shop locally., attend local events. However there are only 6 people (apart from us) in our hamlet-4 are about 20 years older than us and the other 2 about 20 years younger. We have nothing in comman with any of them.

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Hello Ann

Thanks for posting this, some very interesting replies which I have enjoyed reading. Most people seem to have attacked life here with the gusto and energy which I suppose brought them here in the first place.

I must admit to feeling rather guilty, I’m not a great joiner and have never registered to vote in the local elections, and we don’t do many of the local events. My husband, who travels a lot for his work is often away at weekends or evenings and when he is here the last thing he wants is more chatting politely! I did help with the fete du village when we had a rented house at a village near here but, since buying and moving to this I am ashamed to say I have not offered. Silly me I know and my loss.

On the plus side: I have an elderly neighbour who introduced me to her ‘cours du design’, she is not able to go now having had several falls and stays in hospital. I do help her out where I can and pop over to chat. I still go to the art class definitely more for the fun than to foster any ‘talent’ I may have hidden deep within in me. We generally have lunch together and I find the other women very kind towards me. It can be a drag having someone who doesn’t know the locality or language as a native would, and I appreciate their care. All my kids have been to school locally, now two are at uni in the uk and two are still here. There’s a very good bio market at the village, we just enter our needs in the
spreadsheet and pick it up once a week and the atmosphere at this informal market is very friendly. As for local artisans - we’ve done a lot of work on the house and found some very good builders and professionals in the area, either by recommendation or, and don’t knock it, good old yellow pages. It can be a bit long winded checking the lists, calling, calling back, making appointments etc but you soon get a feel for who’s a professional.

Meeting another English person is a rare event, I do find it rather fun, though I tend to avoid the popular markets during August, ‘meeting’ someone is fun, but having to overhear loud chatter from tourist groups from my own country I find rather embarrassing. As my son said to me: why do English people talk so loudly when they are abroad?

Now, funnily enough, I am off to visit the mairie. Best wishes to you all.

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Do British people talk louder or is your ear a tuned to pick out English in a 'foreign’babel ? I must admit than when in the UK I xan pick out French in a group speaking English just because it’s a different sound not because they are talking louder. In the same way over hear Dutch and German also seems louder but is it or just different?

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Good point Sue. I am probably being overly fussy. And after all they are people on holiday enjoying themselves in a civilised fashion who am I to whinge!

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Anna Watson, I’m sympathetic to your feeling that integration is a horrible, vague, pretentious and impersonal word, although I recall that you were less than sympathetic of my resiling from the word expatriate in an earler thread.

Our emotional reactions to particular stimuli are very personal experiences, and it’s not a bad thing to share them on platforms like this, and have them subject to the scrutiny of others, in a good-mannered and constructive way, like this.

In one of your recent posts you have suggested that one needs to make no effort to integrate, and that to do so is pretentious. This being your preferred “just be yourself” line of advice. In another post you suggest that integration (in the context of applying for citizenship) involves starting a French-registered business, dealing with French clients, paying French dues, planting roots here and, it seems, intentionally keeping oneself inside “the system”. That seems to be your “follow my example” line of advice. What is it about other people’s interpretation of integration that so irks you that you need to chide them with their pretentiousness?

Integration is a two-way street. In almost all cultures the receiving actors, the ‘hosts’, perform minor but significant integrative rituals, offering symbolic tokens of hospitality, sometimes gifts of food, offers of help, and other kindnesses. These are intended amongst other things to acknowledge the needs and perhaps the vulnerabilities of ‘ousiders’, and signal to them acceptance, their willingness to engage in relationship building, and - above all - volition towards integration. The newcomers will reciprocate in a variety of ways, not out of pretentiousness, but because it’s what thoughtful people do. It’s not an exact science, one has to be open to the possibility of some clumsiness or ineptitude in the process: that possibility helps us to recognise our common humanity, but also the differences that make integration so fruitful and worthwhile. We grow thereby.

That’s why I wrote about our own experiences, and value the conversations that have broadened and softened my perspectives. Ann Coe’s balanced comments have shed useful light on the process of integration from the perspectives of both ‘hosts’ and ‘immigrants’ (or expatriates as you prefer), and I’m grateful. And I’m grateful too to you for your sometimes less nuanced but always trenchant and interesting ones.

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It’s not “integrating” that irks me, it’s talking about integrating that makes me feel uncomfortable. I suppose I just don’t like navel-gazing. It’s the same with relationships, I have never in my life sat down and had a long discussion about “notre couple” with a partner, I just go with gut feeling and do what feels right. Probably I shouldn’t have joined in the thread, I just thought people might be amused by how the mayor and I met.

Anyway I can see that my contributions to the forum are upsetting people so I’m out of it, just popped back because you asked me a direct question and it seemed rude not to respond.

Bonne continuation all.

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