VOTING FOR THE FRENCH ASSEMBLY - a great initiative

General Discussion
#1

The EU has developed a form of petition site.


The EU has (as so many of you are aware) a problem with democracy- Many of us have social and political ties with two nations at the same time. A Nation of Origin and A Nation of Residency. The links are sometimes more with one than the other. There are millions of people moving from one country to another, having been raised in one , where remain family and other connections, and now living elsewhere in the EU. It is logical that democracy demands a say in both, Unfortunately many of us have no say, politically, in either!


The initiative I detail here is to obtain the vote for the Government in the State in which one resides - that is in France for a National Assembly député. And so on throughout EUROPE.


[I observe that the Vice President of the EU Mme Viviane Reding has also the belief, which I share, that one should also have a democratic voice in one's country of origin.]


ONE MILLION signatures are necessary across the whole of Europe. Click on this link to add your bit. It all helps to make Europe more democratic. It is all under the auspices of the European Commission.


It is Sponsored by the organisation Europe Sans Frontiéres It was begun on 28 January this year with a year to run.


http://www.letmevote.eu/en/


I have signed. N.B. you need to provide some indication of residency on the online form - The number of a permis de conduire works fine.


#2

Done! Permis de conduire worked fine.

#3

That final paragraph is absolutely the point. Thanks for saying it Brian.

#4

Too many Brians -confusing! Jane - I agree with you, as usual -

Let me spell out my thinking as clearly as I can.

The majority of people do not seem to think clearly! The VOTE (a mechanical process) and REPRESENTATION are not the same- One leads to the other. Some unthinking people say 'you have the vote - here or there'. If you have it here you don't need it there! BUt one needs representation wherever lie your needs. A great many of us like yourself and myself must have Representation for our needs at the UK location, where the State regulations clearly affect many of our needs - and those of our close families.

But we also have needs at the French location. So many people wrongly get the notion that one should be entitled to One VOTE only to One National Government. Logically you need Representation at any level or parallel location where the decisions of politicians affect you.

You should have representation (hopefully) at commune (parish) Departement (County) Regional and State levels (and even EU level) but here is something different - also at TWO parallel National levels because millions of Europeans have strong links with TWO States

Foolish thinkers in the UK are almost certain to argue (as you rightly observe) that if you have Representation (the VOTE as they put it) in France then you do not need it in the UK. i.e one or the other but not both! I argue why not BOTH?

This particular shove - pressure [representation in the State of Residence] comes not from British citizens but from a Europe wide network - yet they will find it hard to raise 1 million signatures to launch a debate, which also needs a minimum score in seven States of the Union. Can you imagine the response in The Mail and The Sun to the notion that the French etc in London, should have the vote for the local British MPs ? In some constituencies such a number would have a marked influence!

The other pressure-shove (Representation in one's National State within the EU] is ALREADY fully established for all European Nationals except UK, Irish, Danish and Greek citizens. This shove is supported by Viviane Reding [Vice President of the EU] . So this parallel Representation is already far more advanced.

The first named parallel Representation [to the State of Residence] pleases certain other folk (peace to the other Brian on this forum), but I must repeat it does NOT preclude the other Representation to the National State of origin.

I and you no doubt will concentrate on the Representation to the National State, but will keep an eye on the progress of the other.

The European Union is a somewhat different form of Democracy from anything before. Citizens should get to grip with this concept.

#5

Brian, from the point of view of obligation towards the UK, it is from a totally selfish point of view and also concern for our family still living in UK.
Mind you that sounds like the point of view of most of the UK electorate anyway.

#6

Brian, my concern is that if we have a vote here in France, that will give sufficient ammunition to those in UK who don’t want those of us who live in warm countries to have the vote after fifteen years of living outside the UK.
As you know, I have written to MP on the subject of the overseas vote, especially with regard to any forthcoming referendum and have given evidence to the committee looking into overseas voting.

#7

The UK seems to be unusual among EU member states in removing the right to vote for its expatriate citizens after 15 years but at the same time extending the right to vote to resident (tax paying) Irish and some Commonwealth citizens. If it removed this 15 year limit for its expatriates as a first step and, subsequent to a referendum remained in the EU, it would then seem less of a challenge to extend the voting rights it already grants to UK resident Irish (EU) citzens to other resident EU nationals. There again, an EU member state such as France which already grants full national voting rights to its own expatriate citizens might wonder why it needs to grant voting rights to British citizens resident in France when its own expatriate citizens have no need of reciprocal rights when resident in the UK.

#8

Have voted, don't care which Country we get a National vote so long as we get one somewhere. Graham

#9

Thanks Brian, definitely of interest to me - however, my titre de sejour wasn't accepted - bizarre but as you say Permis de Conduire works.

#10

It is an odd one Jane. I am for country of residence and signed to that end. I feel somehow betrayed by the UK.

When I was quite young and in receipt of grants, most of my time was spent out of the UK. Eventually par of my funding came from non-UK sources. However, I was always told how important it was because I was 'representing' my country. I had warnings along the way, so took out a private pension.

When the latter went broke overnight the UK government did nothing beyond rhetoric for the many thousands of people whose pensions were unprotected, thus lost. A while later I was to find out that without having paid 30 years worth of state pension I would get a meagre proportion of any meaningful pension. From my 18 years in another country's scheme I get far, far more. Then they recently rubbed it in with winter fuel allowance. No doubt I have more surprises to come.

The UK is not really taking pensions or any other fiscal matter into account in electoral business. What they appear to be doing is soft-talking the present generation of pensioners. Each new government since Thatcher, irrespective of its political position, has reduced the state's 'burden' vis-à-vis the old, young, disabled, unemployed and so on. It is a state that gives lip service to people with any degree of dependency but is overtly attempting to end providing such people with any form of support. I do not see why people feel any obligation toward them and the sadly reducing democracy they are elected to govern.

It is not that I see things any better here, far from it. I live here and am surrounded by it. I have local electoral rights and given that what France and the UK share in principle, the notion of democracy working from the base up, if I vote at communal level here then the trajectory is upwards here too. The UK has become very foreign in many ways. I feel far too disconnected to feel my vote contributes in any way.

#11

Jane - I absolutely 100% agree with you. It is essential that we press for the UK vote for expatriates - quite vital for the pensioners. It is possible that this initiative here could divert attention away from this great concern. I and others in the www.votes-for-expat-brits.com campaign are still pressing forward.

At least we have the Vice President of the EU on our side in this matter.

But the other 'representation where you live' has also good democratic credentials. For you and I it is secondary but it is more important to others! We need both! But for me the UK Vote takes precedence.

Others have a different viewpoint - But it must not be one or the other!

#12

Whilst I approve of more democracy, for us we need to have a vote in the UK, as that has the say over over our pensions.

Should the vote in the country of residence come about, I can see any influence we may have over fiscal policy in UK going down the drain.

I will pass this on to our daughter who lives in Germany, and is far too young to be concerned about taking her pension.

#13

Have just done the necessary.

#14

done ;-)