We've a government full of <expletive deleted> haven't we?

The government is a load of <derogatory term for parts of the anatomy, rhymes with an ex health secretary’s name> really aren’t they?

Every time I think my loathing for this government could not increase they do something which proves me wrong.

Bevan had it right.



They really are the utter end.

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They are what they have always been , this time they can’t hide it as well.


The title of the thread is misleading.

Are the people of the UK (insert expletive) or are they governed by (insert expletive) as the two are not the same?

Definitely misleading and insulting to those who don’t agree with the actions of the government


BUT the Tories still have significant, if dwindling, support. Quite why they are not running at 10% or less is a mystery to me.


Thanks for editing that

Morning Mr Butcher

The introduction of voter ID and the redrawing of parlimentary boundries will also aid their cause.



Yes - though I wonder how allowing votes for Brits living outside the UK for > 15 years will swing things.

What’s the problem with requiring ID from voters?

Most European countries require it.

Isn’t eliminating election fraud a good thing?

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How much electoral fraud is there?

Because photo ID in the UK requires people to spend money, whether it’s a driving licence or a passport for example. There are a significant number of people who have neither, mainly because they are too poor. The poor, of course, are not generally tory voters!!
Izzy x


It’s the last bit that’s the problem - or rather NOT the problem. In person voter fraud in the UK is almost unknown.

See (for example: data for other years is also available)

2019 electoral fraud data

Just 4 - four - convictions in 2019.

However requiring voter ID disproportionately disenfranchises the poorest in society - who don’t drive and don’t have foreign holidays. This group is also less likely to vote Tory.

The Republicans want to solve the same non-problem in the 'States, for much the same reason.


Very little, see the link that I provided above. Edit: - and that Mat provided below :slight_smile:

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But there isn’t actually a problem that needs fixing:


Of 32 million votes cast:

595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution.

There are so many better ways govt could spend its time to improve the govt being representative of the share of votes, or increase turnout - but this would require turkeys voting for Xmas.


IMO the UK government should introduce compulsory voting like Australia.


Could not have put it better Mr Butcher.

Morning Notalot

I would have not problem if this was a National ID scheme.

As you say this applies in most EU countires.

I fear the objective, as others have said, is an attempt to manipulate the voter base, which is a bad thing.



AFAIK there will be a free voter card scheme but one still has to apply - it’s an extra step and hassle which will cause some, possibly quite a lot, of those who need one, to not bother.

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I mentioned in the ‘Votes for Expats’ thread that the ‘no taxation without representation’ view was coined in the American revolution and referred to votes for property-owning white men - there was never a question of. say, slaves or women voting. @JaneJones responded that the murky origin of a slogan doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong. She’s right, of course - there is no logically necessary link - but in this case there are very clear historical linkages.

Enlightenment philosophers like Locke are still frequently quoted as authorities by both rightist and centrist believers in ‘liberal democracy’ with little awareness that those ‘founding fathers’ did not believe in voting for everybody - they divided humanity into proper citizens and others, and founded a tradition that has a continuous history in politics - easily traced if you look at contemporary discussions of voting rights from the 1832 Great Reform Act, through to the 1960s civil rights movement - down to current Tory and Republican ‘gerrymandering’.