What are your thoughts? - Brit denied French Nationality (citizenship)

I don’t think the guidance for nationality sets a specific threshold. So it would be a case by case decision based on the person’s individual circumstances. My guess (and it is a guess) is that the authorities would be looking for evidence of long term stability.

Quite. He can bog off.


They aren’t in the same situation at all, this person is from a developed country and isn’t a refugee, he has a perfectly adequate nationality of his own that some people aspire to. Also he hasn’t done anything warranting a reward.

Paul… I did report the official words which came from “on high” the other week…

CdS - whilst some exceptional flexibility will be given to Brits already here who may have dodgy finance levels … no flexibility on finances would be given to such Brits making applications for Nationality…

Plus freedom of movement.

Jane will have freedom of movement within French lands (including those overseas)… it would be for other countries to give us similar rights to those that France is granting us. France has no say over the laws of individual countries…

Yes. I know I am just being hopeful.

That seems to be the problem judging by the BBC report

That seems uncharacteristically uncharitable of you Véro.

I don’t understand Anna’s or Véro’s antagonism to this chap - he seems to be more integrated into his local community and contributing more to it than, I suspect, many French.

Equally it is a bit of a storm in a teacup - he’s been in France for long enough that he won’t be asked to leave, even if his income hasn’t been above threshold for every year of residence.

He has had upwards of a quarter of a century to get French nationality and he is just doing it now - so what is the rush all of a sudden? He isn’t going to be chucked out anyway.

Vero, you already have it.
You have not had to jump through the hoops, run the relay race and then do the hop, skip and jump.
the same would equally apply to Andrew Hearne, so I really don’t see your point.

I obviously feel sympathy for this chap, and do not want to appear censorious or unduly suspicious of the circumstances.

But I wonder if a diligent historic examination of his financial circumstances has raised questions about his probity, and that this rejection is intended to let him know that his card has been marked for future reference, and any future reapplication for citizenship should evidence his awareness of that fact.

Only musing ‘aloud’, as I imagine he has done in the privacy of his own home and business life.

Equally why should  he be expected to apply for citizenship - he was an EU citizen, exercising his treaty rights to FoM. Applying for citizenship was not a compulsory part of the deal.

I am sure Brexit had something to do with it - but perhaps that was the realisation that he was more at home in France with French friends and neighbours than a bitter and xenophobic UK.

He seems to be liked well enough locally to have had hundreds of signatories to the petition against the decision.

True, but if normally intelligent and tolerant people like Véro can get worked up against this chap I worry about the reaction of her less intelligent and less tolerant countrymen (and women) to Brits in France.

Mmmm… except that Andrew does fulfill the requirements for Nationality and this guy doesn’t… (in a nutshell)…

Plus, this guy has not gone for CdS which he can get with ease and special dispensation on resources (which France has agreed to offer Brits already here). Instead he has jumped past the CdS and is demanding Nationality instead.

The suggestion some folk are making (not necessarily here on the forum) …that France is being hard on him …is rather naive, in my view.

Which is kind of the point I was trying to make. Equality is a nice principle, but its implementation is very much dependent on the circumstances. I see this as poor from an absolutist perspective if we are talking about fundamental ideals, but inevitably society must be able to decide one way or another, with rules that do not always seem equal to the task.

Apart from Paul’s point - that brexit changes everything - his personal circumstances and commitments have changed - he now has a French wife and 2-year-old child with her. I completely understand how his feelings may have changed - don’t both brexit and such family relationships change the way we all feel about nationality? - and as a father of 4 I can quite see why he didn’t get around to applying before - and why he hasn’t got much money now - he already had 4 other children from previous marriages!

Actually Geof… the applicant is living with his girlfriend… not married to her. :thinking:

But he had no particular need.

His citizenship application was started in April 2019 - perhaps he thought that would be the best course amid the chaos over CdS applications recently.

Also, he might have realised (a bit belatedly, I agree) that, as a non-EU, immigrant he would not be able to retain his seat on the council.

Yep… he first applied in April 2019, when it really began to sink in the UK really might be leaving EU… on 31/10/2019.

and, it was quite possibly prompted by the loss of his council seat… (I do understand that situation)… but, that, in itself, is not enough to warrant Nationality being granted… there is supposed to be a deep, abiding longing to be FRENCH in all its facets. :thinking:

I’m not antagonistic to the chap, but I don’t like the circus he’s set up. If he’d applied and been refused and expressed disappointment and left it at that, I would have been full of sympathy for him.
It’s the fact that he’s appealed, been rejected again, still not accepted the decision, and now this petition. That to me is instantly stepping outside the line of appropriate conduct in the citizen/state relationship and I find it ironic, in the circumstances, that a wannabee citizen is refusing to accept the way decisions are made in France. “La décision est prise de façon discrétionnaire par l’administration qui peut refuser la naturalisation même si les conditions sont réunies.”

That’s what gets my goat. I don’t know how justified he is in feeling it’s an unfair decision. It says he’s a local concillor, we don’t know what he"s achieved whilst in office, we don’t know what associations he works with, and I personally don’t know anything about his village - it’s in Dordogne, so is that Dordogneshire? is the village itself well integrated into France :wink: ? He has three kids and then another one making four, yet he says he’s never claimed a penny in benefits; does that mean, not even CAF? I know some people don’t claim anything because they don’t feel they pay enough in and they have scruples, which is fair enough but keeping yourself outside the system because you don’t feel entitled to be part of it, is not what you might call integration. Maybe it would have been better if he had claimed (I know I know, damned if you do and damned if you don’t). He stopped working when his children were younger; what was the story there, does he have another source of income? None of us know these things and I very much doubt most of the 33,000 people who signed the petition do either (and that’s what makes me angry, it’s brexit all over again, picking which side you’re on before you know the facts), but presumably the officials who made the decision, made it their business to find out. They’ve seen his tax returns, we haven’t. They’ve interviewed him, we haven’t.

French girlfriend, it says in the article.
There again we don’t know the facts. It mentions his 'earlier marriage", is he in fact divorced from his wife? (there’s a bit in the citizenship criteria about “bonnes moeurs” ie good morals). It’s none of our business and I’m sure he doesn’t want everybody knowing his private life, but if that was the case he shouldn’t have stood in the spotlight because some of these factors might be involved in the decision. The préfecture may have marked down negative points against him that they clearly aren’t in a position to make public. It’s yet more media manipulation with one side putting forward all their arguments to get the public on their side, knowing that the other side is limited in what they feel they can say. I don’t think he’s doing himself any favours and I don’t think he’s doing Brits in general any favours.


Typo - think you mean ‘waives’ the rules don’t you ?

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