And you think "if you don't like it pal, sod off back whence you came" is a civilised, healthy attitude. Cloth cap bigotry more like!!
We'll never agree on this Richard, time to move on!!
Great Phil! Haven't seen you for months. You'll have to come to lunch in Lagrasse, as we are fully booked on the B&B end of things, so slightly "tied" to the house!
Great points Sheila, fully agree with you. Maybe we can discuss further next week. I need a "change"!! Fed up of this "Summer", although great day today on the IoM!!
That's exactly what it is, the sugar is always something you have to hunt out and it the meantime you end up putting loads of other shopping in the trolley.
I totally agree, change is inevitable, its a progression, and you are saying exactly the same as me, change was brought about by endeavour, by the will to improve ones standards, but not by whinging, crikey how many more times do i have to say it ???.
But the richness of the country is improved by those "come overs" simply because they have added to the character and by bringing with them the benefits of where they have come from, not by whinging about the differences between societies, they have accepted the country and got on with their lives.
Richard: But who was saying that to those immigrants? Many of the people saying such things might well say that whatever the the reason, or...?
Actually, extending your point Sheila, wasn't the old phrase 'keep the customers satisfied'? So, as long as we coughs up our precious few shekels, the shops do not give tuppence who we are, but they should still satisfy one and all whether indigenous or from another planet.
To James, and I quote, >>>>>>>>>>>Criticism is necessary for things to improve, it's a healthy part of the evolutionary process. >>> unquote
How is it puerile and naive of me to say to peple that complain about things here in France in relation to that which they are in the U.K. If they don't like what they get in the country they choose to live , why not return to the country where all is there what they want.
How many times when in the U.K. has it been said to Indians or Pakistani's when they have complained about things they were used to in their Motherland but can't, or don't get there -------- 'If you don't like it pal, sod off back whence you came" ------ and that is exactly my point here, , we are the guests in this country -- which happens to be France ----- if change happens then it should happen via the-- FRENCH PEOPLE --- not a load of whinging ex-pats.
I disagree with that Richard "if change is to come about then it has to change for changes sake, but those changes HAVE to come from the indigenous peoples". Change should be about improving, altering, because the status quo is no longer satisfactory. In my country, we had at one point over 300,000 Polish people, and our supermarkets quickly adapted - stocking Polish products, putting up signs in Polish, and the evening newspaper came out once a week in Polish. That was change in order to facilitate the new customers.
But to get back to Brian's original point - why are the supermarkets selling a product but not the batteries it needs. That is just illogical. So why not complain about this (albeit small) aspect of life?
Don't think we are really arguing the same point, Richard. I did say that it's the new generation of Manx that stimulates change, but also said that the many different groups of "come-overs", with their cultures and way of doing things, have added to that change over the years and more recently.
I don't see why you feel you have to accept the faults of a country, just because you weren't born there. How many British politicians were either not born in the UK, or are 1st generation British?
We are arguing the the same point but at different levels, I totally agree with you, if change is to come about then it has to change for changes sake, but those changes HAVE to come from the indigenous peoples, NOT those that want to live in another country but expect THAT country to conform with what they have just left.
Like you in the Manx, I accept all the warts I encounter here in France, I am here because I want to experience "the Bon Vie" of the French way of living, and I am,if change is afoot then so be it, I will accept it as and when it happens, if I start complaining about things then like I have said so many times, I would up sticks and move back to the U.K.
And most of the change that has taken place in the UK has come from immigrants - even down to the Romans, the (SAXON) William the Conqueror, the Lombards (banking - well, maybe not!!) etc. And in more recent times, post-War, the West Indians and of course, those from the Indian sub-continent who took UK retail and shook it till the teeth rattled! A society which does not change is moribund. We just have to make sure that baby doesn't get thrown out with the proverbial!!
100% agree James. Constructive criticism cannot be a bad thing and should be welcomed, as I believe it is by the majority of French people, whether those ideas come from the French themselves or maybe "come-overs" who bring a different perpsective to the mix.
Those who have chosen to make the Isle of Man their home recently, for instance, be they Polish, Filipino, South Africans, Egyptians, etc etc add to the richness of the country and despite being a small island in the Irish Sea, have been welcomed in by the majority of Manx residents. Where would we be without the earlier influx of Italian, Chinese, Indian restaurants owners, Italian hairdressers etc, whose children and grandchildren are now adults and are as Manx as the Hills!!
Succinctly put Phil, my sentiments entirely. I am sick of hearing the ridiculous 'if you don't like it go home' argument, it is puerile and naive. Criticism is necessary for things to improve, it's a healthy part of the evolutionary process.
No contradiction at all, Richard. Removal of said warts just made the IoM an even better place to live.
The attitude of that's the way it's always been and that's the way it must stay, is dinosaurland.
The Manx people did change, believe me. The younger generation of Manx coming through made sure of that, they weren't happy with many of the things that their parents settled for. I'd be surprised if the same didn't apply to France, or any other country. Look at the wholesale changes in North Africa recently, spurred on by the next generation.
Phil, you seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat and I quote >>>
I've lived on the Isle of Man for 35 years and I moved here because I loved the place, despite it's warts!! Thankfully over time, even those warts have been removed, so it makes it an even better place to live. >>>>>>>> unquote.
Isn't that what i am saying, you accept a place , a country for what it is , warts and all ??? But then you go on to say, and I quote >>>>>
You maybe 100% happy with your lot, but unfair to have a go at those people who are maybe only 90% happy and would like to see some changes that would improve that percentage >>> unquote.
WE are living in the foriegn clime -- NOT THE FRENCH ----- why should the French change a lifestyle they have known all their lives just to appease a few disgruntled foreign immigrants -- its THEIR COUNTRY --- we as the interlopers should adjust OURSELVES to their way of life, not vice versa --- Did the Manx people change --or did you adapt???.
All the French I know, and thats quite a few, agree with me, its THEIR country, I am just an Englishman living here, they always ask if i like living here and always smile when i say i would never willingly want to return to the U.k................... God i ove it here.
I am not saying the "boat in the morning" is a good thing, it was a very bad attitude to have, somewhat akin to yours.
I've lived on the Isle of Man for 35 years and I moved here because I loved the place, despite it's warts!! Thankfully over time, even those warts have been removed, so it makes it an even better place to live.
I think the same goes for other countries too. They had the guillotine in France - if nothing changes, we'd all be living in caves still, unless that would suit some folk!!
You maybe 100% happy with your lot, but unfair to have a go at those people who are maybe only 90% happy and would like to see some changes that would improve that percentage!
I repeat myself in saying that your attitude is, in my opinion, not typical of the French people I know.
To Phil Harrison, and I quote >>>>> "if you don't like the way we do things, there's a boat at 9 o'clock in the morning"!! >>>> unquote.
Thats exactly what I am saying, if you don't like the waythe French, or any other country come to that,---- live --behave -- re-act --- then move on. Nowhere is perfect, but acceptance of the ideals is what its all about, If you start thinking that this, or that was better whence you came from then go back and enjoy it, me, I am happy to accept what I consider the idiosycracies of French life, we live here because we LOVE it here, and as with all types of love, you ---- excuse --forgive --- tolerate ------ that which you don't like.
Like you, we also live in in the backwoods,but a small commune with NO shop-- NO garage -- NO bar --- no NUFFIN, but forty miles one way is Poitiers, thirty miles the other is Angouleme, and just a couple of miles down the road is the delightfu small town of RUFFEC, so all our needs are fulfilled with just a shortish drive.......... God I love it here.
No Carol, I am not a French citizen, and yes I pay all the the French taxes--from Habitation to personal earnings taxes, I have a Card Vitalle and back up insurance, I have no idea what my rights are in the UK regarding health cover etc if I were sick there i would present myself to the nearest hospital and worry about the consequences at a later date.
We have two cars, both Renaults, my wifes is a right hand drive, which we brought over from the U.K. It now has French plates, French insurance and a French C.V. My car was purchased over here and is a left hand drive, normal French standings, we have also change from English to French driving licences simply because we don't want any problems.
When we decided to move here we burned ALL our bridges, returning to the U.k. never has, nor ever will be an option, we have made our bed and will lay in it. As far as i am concerned, if you half do a job you will never be be happy with it, it's all or nothing ------------- God I love it here.