We don't often get away but may manage a week in Paris this summer, I was wondering if you go on holiday and if so where will you be going and if not where would you like to go?
Thanks!
James
Thank you Ellis....I will let you know about that conversation once Ive had the holiday... ;-)
Looking elsewhere on this post I fear Carol that you are in checkmate. Not something you are used to. Neither Ellis nor me have been impolite. It's just you don't like challenge.
It's already there on the record.
Jane thank you for that comment. I had already told David this 3 way discussion is off thread now. We were talking about holidays. I enjoyed mine. Ellis is doing what is recognised on all debating sites as a sneaky way to try and distract the original argument which is to become personal, exaggerate, ridicule, provoke, and contradict. Its become boring now and Im sure not the least entertaining for any of the others on this site, and I am withdrawing from the thread as I am planning our next holiday to Australia...stopping off on the way there and back.... in Dubai....happy holidays SFNers.
ok David...but this has become too personal. I am not being drawn any further on this. The thread is about holidays. Ive had mine...where are you going?
I think your comment suggesting that negative comments on Dubai were prompted by an anti-Arab sentiment typical of some Jews entirely unfounded. You are not to know; but on most issues relating to the Arab world I tend to favour the Arabs. I certainly favour the Palestinians in their desire to regain their homeland and I regret that many Arabs having fought for freedom from opressive governments are now walking headfirst into a new Wahabi/Salafi serfdom. No what I object to is your failure to recognise that wonderful Dubai is being built by poor exploited labour. The fact that such exploitation happens in other countries, witness your Chinese cocklepickers, does not diminish the wrong.
Carol, you have been expressing your opinion in a straightforward and honest way, which is what we expect on this forum. Ellis, however, has become personally offensive, which is unacceptable.
Ellis...getting a bit bored now. You launched into a tremendous attack on Dubai...then on me...because of your, I assume, social concience....where you tell me I am basically a disgrace and an apologist for a country you have decided is a disgrace. I disagree...and again you launch into an attack. Frankly your opinion is your own...and doesnt really change my mind...probably because you are quite rude with it...you dont put across a good argument in a manner that would make me reconsider....you attack without thinking your argument through. You then have the effrontery to accuse me of watching too much Lord Sugar because I sound like a cockney...!!!! which I am incidentally...so you are happy to have a go at Dubai for discriminating against other nationalities...but you are happy to do that to me? My comment on the country being an Arab country not unreasonable, I was brought up in Golders Green and the comments you have made are similar to many I have heard from some of my old friends who are Jews....on this thread..several people have made the point Dubai not the only country who carries out various practices...but you do keep banging on. Personally I dont care...I am nearly 60 happy in my skin...you have a problem...thats yours to deal with. I dont have a problem......and as you dont like my cockney replies....let me finish with Capisce?
Taken against you Ellis...why would you think that. And...are you actually saying we cant have an intelligent conversation if I speak like a cockney...well bugger me....sorry me ole cock....I am a bleedin cockney...so stick that in yer pipe....and bleedin 'ell....Ive got a degree as well...well...what a bleeding cheek of me...aint it....guess you is just gonna ave to live wiv it....aint it?
Agree Irene...how long ago were there cockle pickers drown in the UK...the gangmasters kept them penniless in houses....they were most certainly enslaved. I wonder if its more to do with the fact that Dubai is an Arab country.
David I fail to see what red herrings you are talking about, if you dont like the practices in Dubai...fine...you wont go. End of story, you are certainly not going to influence me, and if you hoped to you maybe need to learn the subtle art of persuasion rather than the unsubtle art of unpleasant jibes which certainly wouldn't change my mind, and would most likely make me dig my heels in all the more.
Ellis....I disagree with you....ok....get over it. I think you are disingenuous by making out Dubai is the big bogeyman....plenty of countries have similar practices...and the UK in the past hasnt had that great a record with slaves. I am not the least defensive...I liked Dubai...I am delighted my kids enjoy living there. Deal with it.
More red herrings I''m afraid Ellis. Carol just don't recognise that the well paid life her children have in Dubai is based on the shifting sands of exploitation.
Interestingly, just looked up the word you used, coolie, and found this.
coolies plural of coo·lie
|
Noun
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No more did I.
Actually I find it quite amusing that you are apparently offended that the Emiratis will not undertake physical toil.....I would suggest its not only the Emiratis who are rich and who do not work, as you call it, as 'coolies' the upper classes in the UK are disinclined to work as labourers as well and that is probably shared by most wealthy people throughout the world...the fact is Dubai provide their residents with sufficient funds not to have to undertake this work. You see Emiratis working in some areas, for instance in the Customs Hall at the airport...where they will work 4 or 5 hours a day and earn a great deal. I never suggested Dubai was a Socialist country!
No red herrings David...relevant facts. We all know that Briton was built off the sweat of exploited workers in the days before unions....and the practice continues in many places throughout the world....some countries are quite willing to exploit their own countrymen and not bother bringing in foreign workers. I dont agree with the practice, of course I dont. But neither do I pretend its a practice limited to one country. The other comments regarding prisoners and torture was in answer to another SFN
er who seems to think its only Dubai who tortures prisoners.
My point Carol as you well know is that where you see many people working hard and earning far more than they could in their own countries I see that much of the glories of Dubai, if glories there be; is built on the exploitation of labourers from South Asia who will probably be lucky to get back to Bangla Desh free of continuing debts which perpetuate the cycle. You now seem to me to be both agreeing with me in part and also creating red herrings to distract attention from the argument. Unfortunately most indigenous inhabitants of Dubai and the Emirate wouldn't be seen dead stooping to getting their hands dirty; that's coolie work. They'd much rather exploit their co-religionists from South Asia and pay for the services of occidentals who see the chance to make a quick buck. Neither group having much by way of civil/legal rights or protection.
As above Jane...where I cite nursing and care homes in the UK....it has also been recently uncovered in various parts of London and Paris...where rich home owners have brought a girl over from a 3rd world country and enslaved her. There have also been incidences where a Bordello has been uncovered and all the girls are unwittingly being used as prostitutes, passports removed, all rights removed. We cant claim it is only Arab countries that practice this, it is a lot more widespread than people think.