Women, tattoos & piercings

Mine is a fashion statement from 42 years ago then. :slight_smile:

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None taken :wink:

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Stephen, judging people by their appearance is instinctive unfotunately. It does not matter how “politically correct” or otherwise we wish people to be, I would bet that those who are honest with themselves will continue to do so - they are just discouraged to admit it. Tattoos & piercings may be an art form but not in all cultures. In some, tattoos were used to publicly mark criminals while in others they were used to mark members of criminal gangs. I am aware that the art has more admirers today than ever before but that does not mean I have to like it. In fact, the more I am told that I have to accept new thinking, the more I push against it.
I have yet to fully understand racism. It seems that if you distinguish someone by his colour or his homeland you are racist regardless of the context.
If you don’t like tattoos then you don’t like them! If you don’t like religion then that’s fine, too, but I’m sure that you would not have “I hate religion” as your first words to everyone. Rather than tattoos why not have the same artwork printed on a body suit?

You are right. When i see a person with lots of tatoos and/or piercing i feel like they are strugling to comunicate, emotionaly they are weak unable to accept themselves as they are, extreme behaviour can be a scream for help, others see tatoos as fashion statement, later in life they will pay the price. Those girls on those photos, if in the furure they change their minds and decide they dont like their tatoos anymore, they will need full body skin trasplant I dont think laser treatment would help. But working places have changed so much that lots of people can work from home or anywhere, offices are work & play. Nowdays companies dont give interviews, candidates are given a code they go online to do few tests if they pass the online tests than they will be judged by their intellectual abilities and maybe given a person to person interview. The world is changing.

This is not true for everybody. I have three tattoos, one small and two big ones. I’ve had them for over 20 years, and I am still everyday happy when I see them in the mirror. I chose to have them done to mark various important moments in my life, and they are all completely unique. The designs were all drawn by hand directly onto my skin, nothing came off a shelf. So for me, they are very individual, and they are after all this time still very important to me. I did make de decision to have them in places where they can be completely covered wearing a T-shirt and shorts, and there are many people in my later career in very high-end hospitality that never knew I have them, and I think many people wouldn’t believe I have them if they met me now. I got them purely and only for myself, and not to show them off to other people. I never regretted getting them for a second. I love them, they truly belong to me.

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Oh my, Judgy mc judge. Interesting to see all those whom would normally be so politically correct and “dinner party” attendees suddenly become so horrid. Would any of you sit at a table with others, some perhaps having tatts, and state, out of the blue “Tattoos are offensive”, or “horrible”. Perhaps som find wearing brown cordrouy pants, or shorts with socks under sandals repulsive, but nobody is going to actually tackle the majority of you old fogies on the matter, are they?
It is what it is, as was mentioned above. Some of the most wholesome, sweetest, and kindest folks I know are the hairy tatooed biker types, and others have tribal tattoos that mean something personally to them. I don’t question their meanings, as it’s personal to them. Just go to a charity bike run, where hoardes of tattoed folk are raising money for the homeless, the disabled, childrens’ hospitals.

Ok, ok, I hear you, you’re “not” judging these folks, or saying they’re bad… just that they are unsightly… how about those with visible birthmarks, deformations, burn scarring on the face… the list goes on.Not everyone has to be aesthetically pleasing to you, personally, and too bad, so sad, look the other way if you are horrified, but the side of folks we see here, criticising and judging without knowing the person is what’s really offensive and horrid here.

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I don’t think it is possible to deduce anything at all about a person because they have tattoos, apart from the fact that they like tattoos. I’m a lot more interested in how people think than how they look, personally. Chacun son goût.

That said I think people should really think about how permanent something is, a friend of my daughter’s had a tattoo done on her back, cello-size f holes so nothing outrageous or controversial, at 19 or 20 and now 5 years later regrets it, saying she is no longer the person she was then, and is having them lasered off - it is taking a long time, it’s expensive and there’s no guarantee they will be completely removed. Either way she won’t get back to the status quo ante.

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Surely tattoos are like any other fashion or trend. Individuals have the right to wear the hairstyles they want, listen to a particular genre of music or have permanent body art. That is their choice. However others do not have to share their opinions and are free to explain what they dislike. Like it or not individuals will be judgemental of others, how we dress, how we wear our hair, how we drive or even how we spend our money. That’s life, living with criticism is just part of it.

Why does criticism have to be a part of it… why should we all feel it’s normal to look around us and criticize and ostracise anything that does not resemble ourselves.

shall we criticize and judge someone that was in Auschwitz for their ink? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/92/b3/d6/92b3d67c9954b582ba00834621455e93.jpg Who gives us the right to criticize.

I don’t judge, and, yes, whether I like it or now, people will, and do judge… my accent, my motorcycle, my choice of home, my choice of country, even… but I don’t have to be those people, and I definitely don’t have to normalise it, or accept that it is “ok”.

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Thom Bulman does some pretty cool stuff

https://www.google.fr/search?q=bulman+tattoos&client=firefox-b-ab&sa=X&biw=1322&bih=830&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwjLh8Ok_cHQAhXFmBoKHa78BLUQ7AkILA

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Well said, Zoe! Although, for someome who does not judge to go on to say[quote=“Zoe_Buckley, post:26, topic:14244”]
Interesting to see all those whom would normally be so politically correct and “dinner party” attendees suddenly become so horrid.
[/quote]seems a bit judgmental? What is the world coming to when one cannot be honest about their own views? I’m now being pigeon holed by you as a dinner party attendee as if that is somehow immoral or distasteful. That may be your view & you are entitled to express it like my dislike of tattoos. The biggest problem is that most tattoos have nothing to do with tribal culture “Mum, can I have a maori tattoo all over my face?” “Are you a Maori then?” " No, we are from Stains, but they look cool! Mike Tyson’s got one!" Unlike clothes, make-up & hair styles they are mostly permanent. A tattooed person is not necessarily a bad person, but someone with highly visible ones can be scary, assisted by the film world & TV.
Can you imagine “Ladies & gentlemen, please stand for the Pope…”

However people look, they will be judged, the best one can hope for is that the judging is silent… I’m not a fan of all sorts of things eg beige crimplene, orange cars, american tan tights etc etc and I think that sort of judging goes for everyone, because we are solipsistic and can’t imagine ourselves with whatever it is. But it doesn’t mean that the person with the things we don’t like is a bad person just because they like those things. We should judge people on their deeds not on their looks or tastes.

That, however, presupposes that people are intelligent enough to distinguish between the two, eg my ex mother-in-law loathes Mary Beard because she has long grey hair and an academic job, she doesn’t take into account that she is a fascinating and very knowledgeable person… were MB a bog-standard housewife with an orange perm and a faceful of slap she’d be much more to the ex-mil’s taste, but then she wouldn’t be who she is, either. I think if you make a value-judgment based purely on looks then you are a cretin. So obviously I judge too, but not on looks

Why? Because that’s human nature.

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Not a criticism, Mark, rather an observation… that people are showing themselves to be horrid, but that’s completely up to them… who knows, maybe nice guys DO come last??? I just don’t feel a human or natural need to put folk down based simply on something as simple as a tattoo, or peircing.

Ummm, the dinner party thing comes up on here any time two people disagree, and an admin, or James or Catharine pop in to “remind” us of this simple, but effective rule. Nothing about looking down anyone’s nose, or being immoral… i have no idea where you get the idea that I was implying such.

thank you, though, for showing where you stand, publishing a “oh, but he is HIDEOUS” to prove your point. I doubt very much the man in your photo is going to mass on sundays, let alone looking to be pope, and if he is, and if he did… big deal. maybe he could put some of the gold plating to good use in the Vatican.
If I see someone being a total pratt, bullying, talking down to, or antagonising another person, Yes, by all means, I will form a very strong opinion of that person, BASED on experience, and I will criticize, or judge them on that, and THAT is part of human nature… but looking at someone’s hairdo, shoes, tattoo, clothing choice… whether I agree or disagree with their choices and suitability… it’s not my judgement call to make, it’s theirs, and theirs alone.

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Zoe, I’m not sure who is being horrid, could you cite an example?
It is human nature to judge others by appearance. We have all crossed the road when we see a gang of youths whose appearance & language, both body & verbal, set off those little bells. I’m sure that you have been approached at a gathering in the past by someone whose attention does not appeal to you because of the way they present themselves. As a young man at a nightclub I have asked for a dance with a young lady & been told to go away. I’ve always put this down to my appearance not meeting the lady’s idea of what she likes. I was given no chance to “turn on the charm”. It’s what humans do, surely? Had the position been reversed & a lady asked me but her appearance did not fit my idea of a partner then I would also decline.
We humans buy our possessions on the same basis - our houses, our cars, furniture - are all bought because we like what we see & there is a large variety because we all like & importantly, dislike different things. I don’t like tattoos! The artwork is very clever & pretty, but that someone should choose to make it a permanent mark on their bodies for all to see (the descreet ones are not an issue) means that they can never change their minds. This shortsightedness triggers in my mind a small defect in common sense in that person.
I don’t shy away from tattoo’ed people & I certainly don’t think that they are evil but they will have to work a little harder than others to earn my trust in business. I cannot name a single bank manager with visible tattoos.
They can & often are nice people but a check on street gangs shows that they can equally be very nasty. This makes me wary until I know.
Yes, I would tell someone that I don’t like tattoos & I would also tell a cannibis smoker that I don’t approve of that either.
Again, with regard to tattoos,I quote you - [quote=“Zoe_Buckley, post:29, topic:14244”]
I definitely don’t have to normalise it, or accept that it is “ok”.
[/quote]

You quote me out of context, the “it” is not tattoos, and it’s clearly written. Try it again.

Who is horrid??? ANYONE that will take one look at a person’s clothing, tattoo, hairstyle, or, while we’re at it, race, religion, sexual orientation, and judge them. That was also clear…

Crossed the road to avoid someone?? I haven’t… if you have, I suggest working on yourself, not on the people you cross.

Enough with the patriarchy, it’s not up to a woman to dance with any man that sees fit to ask her to. She has that choice… Maybe some young woman would have thought that the courage you plucked up was worth it, others… perhaps had their eye on someone else… Obviously it marked you in some way, but don’t take that out on me… I’d dance with anyone.

If you hesitate to do business with a person simply because of a tattoo, that is your own shortsightedness, however, as I know bank managers, architechts, doctors, paramedics, mining engineers with tattoos, and they all seem to do quite well. That’s your luck-out. By the by… a bank manager will usually be long sleeved, with a shirt and collar, and in pants… Have you asked them to pose in their swimmies? Maybe you are a bank manager… but if you were, you have a very small network if there are no tattoed members.

Ok… so now it all makes sense… a tattoed person is a street gang memeber UNTIL you have proven otherwise? Fair enough… to me a person is a person, until I see them participate or carry out an act of injustice or unkindness. Unfortunately, the majority of folks can be judged on their actions and words… a 79 year old granny with a dolphin on her ankle is not going to be setting fire to my bins.

Shortsightnedness is a defect, you’re right, I totally agree… because, in hindsight, if I thought for one second that mentioning my stance on our place as humans to judge others would have carried on thus far, I would have probably have made it a little more interesting.

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I know the “it” is not tattoos, I took it to be that you meant that people will judge on first impressions & it is that which you do not have to accept as “OK”. I’m just saying that the same applies to other areas. I do not have to accept that to wish to deface or mutilate oneself is OK or normal however widespread it is becoming.
I think you also took my comment about the dancing thing - I do not imply that a woman should dance with any man who asks - my point was that she made a choice, an instant judgement based purely on first impressions, the very thing you are telling me we should not use to decide whether we want to know that person.
I am pleased that every person you have met in your life has turned out to be so wonderful & that you gave them every opportunity to spend enough time with you to prove it. Unfortunately I seem to meet people who have done me harm in some way to the point that now I can sometimes see a pattern. It has nothing to do with how they look, it’s a feeling & when I get it I walk away.
I don’t know where you live but it must be nice. In many towns in the UK Friday nights used to herald the arrival of drunken youths fighting outside pubs & when I saw them I would cross the road. That’s literal & sensible. What has that got to do with your comment “Crossed the road to avoid someone?? I haven’t… if you have, I suggest working on yourself, not on the people you cross.” I am not avoiding someone I have crossed, just not walking into a street battle!
You also imply that I think a tattooed person is a street gang member (judging me again?) No! When I see someone with highly visible tats I can’t help but wonder what happens when they decide that they no longer want them. Thousands do which is why many go through very painful laser treatment.
Do you know what I have liked about this discussion? It is the contributors who admit to having them & liking them but have felt the need to keep them covered in their jobs. Why don’t you ask them why? I’m sure that it isn’t because it might offend little old me. Same applies to bank managers.
I do have friends with tattoos - my regiment kept quite a few artists in business - but there is no doubt that visible tattoos will affect ones lifestyle. I’m sure lots of people have them but you don’t see them being displayed in the work environment

Last month, Aubusson in the Creuse had its annual Tattoo weekend, I think it is the second year running. I went with a friend on the Saturday and was astounded by the diversity of the people there ( it was being managed and run by a local MC club). Everyone, and I mean everyone was so friendly, chatty and just nice, from the big hairy arsed bikers to the petite women selling a bit of incense and the guys with the piercings and filed down teeth!!. I got my first and only fairly discrete tattoo about 25 years ago , but I thought it doesn’t matter what people think any more, so I went home, found a design that I liked that meant something to me and went back the next day and had it done.
Not only that, dragged Pauline along and she got inked for the first time at 62.
I admit, my eyes were opened up a bit, but we had a great time and you really can’t judge people because of the particular lifestyle they choose, and if it looks a bit silly when they are 80, then so what.

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Mark, I do agree with you! I do not automatically dismiss people because they have tattoos! We are free to make our own choices in life & we should be aware that those choices will impact the way others react to us, To be covered head to foot in tattoos is very rare & those who remember the time when the Hell’s Angles first came on the scene they were indeed evil. That is not the case today but it has been an uphill struggle for motorcycle clubs to shed that image, still portrayed in some movies today. Today’s club members are aware of this & expect a little reticence from some & generally are not offended by it.
Those of you who admit to having tattoos can choose to cover them in certain situations probably for the same reason. If I met you in a social situation we would probably get on. This would not change if after a little while you rolled up your sleeve to reveal a tattoo - my impression of you would already have been made.
A ten year old walking along the street with a baseball bat on a sunny afternoon would not make me think twice - a thirty year old doing the same thing would. The ten year old might be on his way to smash his school windows & the 30 year old might be on his way to meet his son in the park. First impressions!
There are many things I do & do not like & this is the same for us all. We should not be forced to accept things as normal just because a minority wishes it so - how long has the cannibis debate gone on? I don’t like Citroen 2CVs. I do not hate their owners but I question their taste in cars. I DO like big american cars - gas guzzlers. I know people who consider them vulgar & polluting. They still talk to me despite this.
Pink painted houses, guns, mobile phones, treatment of animals, clothing, hair colour, 16 year old mothers, I have a view on all these things. If people want me to like them, I mean in choose to spend my time with them, I will judge them & be expected to be judged in return. We should have to earn the respect of others & not expect to be warmly accepted by everybody without condition.

I know what you mean when it comes to 2CVs, and we (well she) used to have a couple, awful cars and not at all enjoyable to drive especially if you are on the big (not fat) side I used to have a 4 litre jeep wrangler when we first arrived here. Sadly it was too much of a gas guzzle, however I wish I had kept it now.