John originally asked for advice as to why his pans are turning black. He did not ask for the potted history of Captain(e) Pugwash and their adventures on the high seas and inland waterways of Europe.
Can we stick to the question please? Otherwise it becomes very tedious and stinks of oneupmanship.
Close the door on your way out.
there are some very wide narrow boats go down this canal from holland and the owners call themselve bargies not narrowies ha ha , we did not own a cyl vending co but a cyl filling plant along with all other aspects that entails (now owned by calor), but we will now bow out and leave it to the " experts"
They're not barges Donna they're narrow boats.
WHAT?? I was chewing the fat about boats with Shirley when you jumped in gave me the benefit of your bottled gas vending experience for which I am extremely grateful. Of course nobody would cook during a storm & my point was that I would turn off the gas at source to avoid problems if the hob was damaged by a falling person during a blow. As you rightly say, we were talking about domestic installations but thanks anyway for the boating advice. Matter of interest as well as running a boat I used to run an engineering company where we had up to a dozen commercially qualified gas engineers so I do know a little about the subjects ;-)
most people who live on boats never go near a storm so if say on a canal barge there is no danger, but if on a journey that involves the cyl swaying about of course it should be closed, the original point was about a house installation not mobile, + anyone cooking which I assume involves hot pans whilst in a storm and LIFE threatening situation needs their bumps feeling !!!
Please make your mind up! You have previously told me " you did not need to turn off the bottle" & now you tell me "anyway you should always close a gas cyl whilst travelling" .
wow you have now gone from turning off the gas after finishing cooking to being in a life threatening storm when I would not have thought it possible to cook, anyway you should always close a gas cyl whilst travelling be it in a boat- motorhome- caravan etc because of the possibility of liquid entering the reg from a full cyl.
Believe me madam, when you are sailing mid channel, it's blowing a hooley & everything & everyone is being chucked about you really do need to turn off the gas & anything else that might be broken by a flying body ! It's common sense not gas regs which count when you're not even sure if you are going to live to make the next fry up ;-)
you did not need to turn off the bottle as the type you are referring to uses a high pressure hose as opposed to hose from a reg which is low pressure, I believe all new motorhomes etc now use high pressure from the bottle to the reg, one thing that amazes me is how they get away with using the type of bottle here - all gas bottles must have a collar to protect the valve so if the bottle falls over the valve (brass) cannot break off, yet here once the cover is unscrewed the valve is exposed, but then again these are eu rules so only britain will comply ha ha
This an excerpt from a French installation guide.
Gas Products
Natural gas is available in the majority of towns in France, but as much of France is rural, GPL (butane and propane) is also very common. Other gases, such as Gaz de Lacq, air propane and air butane are available but they are relatively uncommon. These are the most commonly used gas products:
- Natural gas: Supply pressure 20mbar; lighter than air; piped directly to properties
- Propane: Supply pressure 37mbar from bottle, 1.5bar from storage tank, reducing to 37mbar at appliance; heavier than air; pressures inside bottles and tanks are much higher; stored in above-ground or buried tanks outdoors or supplied loose in bottles. The maximum size of bottle allowed inside a building is 6.5 litres (2.8 Kg)
- Butane: Supply pressure 28mbar; heavier than air; supplied in bottles only and for interior use only, the maximum size of bottle allowed inside a building is 10 litres (13 Kg)
Bottled gas is stored in liquid form and should only ever used in a vertical position. When using propane, it is recommended to locate the bottle outside if possible. Single bottles are permitted inside dwellings, but twin bottle installations must be kept outside.
I am aware this is France and there are differences in the British regs and French norms but these are in the process of being normalised throughout Europe. The regs are tighter in some aspects in UK and tighter in others in France. For example in the UK it is forbidden to use any bottled gas inside a dwelling unless it in a self contained portable appliance such as a Super Ser gas heater. It is important to realise though that the physical properties of bottled gas remain the same worldwide. Importantly it is heavier than air and has similar flammability as petrol fumes. Gas bottles store gas as a liquid under high pressure and could explode with the same force per weight as TNT if caught in a fire. These risks must be limited by storing the bottles where any potential leaks can be dispersed without reaching a potentially flammable mixture and where they will not be at risk of being heated by a house fire. The best way of doing this is to keep the bottles outside in free air away from open drains. I'm not trying to be alarmist nor do I expect anyone to take my word for it. The correct way to assure your installation is safe in France is to have it inspected by a qualified engineer and get him to certify it.
Colin this is France are you sure things are the same as the UK !
Shirley
there will be a date on the hose make sure it hasn't expired
Shirley. If you are talking 'gas pressure at the burner', my boat also had "high" pressure as the gimballed hob was a type which used gas at bottle pressure ie. there was no regulator just a direct connexion to the bottle. I thought it strange & a little dangerous but that was the way it was designed by Calor I think. I made damned sure I turned off the bottle when I had finished using the hob ;-)
Yes but the punched letters on the bottle says butane or propane and the weight of gas.
Lot's more good information but need to be aware we are talking French regs which are slightly different although there are flexibles around the metal clad ones are the ones that must be used now as far as I am aware the non metal clad are just dangerous together with their jubilee clips!
Cylinder colour seems to be another mine field as in the UK you can/could tell almost immediately what was in the cylinder in France they paint them any colour they like and don't even seem to bother with a collar colour for id
Dear All,
As Mrs T still doesn't have quick enough connection on the broadband (still on her mobile phone as we can't get the Livebox working) I have copied and pasted all your comments to her via email. I'm very grateful and sincerely hope the house does not blow up in the meantime! I will update you when we (Mrs T) has solved the issue.
new regulators can be used for both propane and butane as the outlet pressures have been fixed, its no good paying more for gas in the hope its better as most comes out of the same refineries, propane can be used indoors in certain circumstances, and as as been said - blue is true - yellow is peril, ps my husband owned his own bottled gas company
It's been like this since the start Shirley, no change as of yet. It's all in the pipeline...