Didn't do much for me Helen. And men can't multi-task, so I would either fail to comprehend the CD, or crash the car!
But, at a slightly more advanced stage, I find that watching French TV with the subtitles on is very helpful.
Most people learn best at classes with a talented teacher, but those are fairly hard to find.
I dont live in France all the time however i do try and listen to My Michel Thomas Learning French cd's whenever i am in the car. I've found them very good.
Language is, of course, primarily a means of communication, and Vic's approach is a perfectly reasonable one followed by many Anglophone French residents. It is, however, also a fundamental part of a nation's culture, whether it be the English of Shakespeare or Dickens, the French of Racine or Proust, or the German of Goethe. The level to which one wants to study a language beyond getting by on a day to day basis is a matter of personal choice, but, as with learning a musical instrument, the more you know the more you realise you do not know. Some find that mentally stimulating; others might find it depressing, in which case it is more sensible to limit one's goals.
Quite Vic. I have two translations of a book I already had in German that two people thought I should read, so bought me English versions. There are bits left out, little bits put in (by use of interpretation of the chain of ideas I guess) and overall the way the translated vocabulary pans out changes things a lot in some parts. One is considerably different to the other. Those are the 'technicalities' you mention laid out in print that those who do not have the original language will never know about and since very few people read two versions of the same book will never suspect exist.
Precisely what my wife says, Vic. She speaks English well but is badly out of practice. "As long as they understand what I'm trying to say I don't care how many mistakes I make," she says on a regular basis.
Don't worry it is only a year. We have been here 6 years and OK I was in a job where French was the office language, but we spoke to each other in French, mixed with French people and spoke French to them. A good gossip over the garden fen,ce with your neighbours is a must. They feel that they are insulting you if they correct you, but ask them to do it. Unless you want a secretarial career, just worry about the day to day language so that you can communicate. Over time things drop into place. We now find reading documents etc fairly easy and sometimes now we know the French word for something and cannot think of the English word. Dont get despondant it will come, but have a conversation with a French person every day.
http://french.about.com/od/francophonie/u/startlearning.htm?nl=1
Try this Deborah. It's aimed at American college students. It's good and you can use the audio to help your appreciation of French sounds.
I found it most helpful to have the 'Bescherelle' Complete guide to conjugating, (12000 French Verbs) by Hatier. I got this when I started formally studying French about 16 years ago. It's very thin, for many verbs follow the same rules, except for the irregular verbs, of course.
Also, I like what Vic said about NOT translating, but rather trying to switch your brain over. Hard at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's actually easier.
Case in point: I have an aptitude for language, but on our first visit to France, (where no one spoke a lick of English), my husband was translating everything, even when I didn't want him to. I too was giving into having him translate things that were difficult for me to put into French. Note: I had studied French formally, but didn't have a lot of conversational skill. I wasn't learning as fast as I should've, (I speak a couple of other foreign languages, so I could compare it to my previous rate of learning). One day I realized that we were doing the translating thing. I put a stop to that 'tout de suite', trained my husband to speak to me only in French when we're there, and my learning now grows quickly each time we're there. Now, about 10 years later, I do not speak English to my husband, (a Frenchie), in any Francophone country we find ourselves in, unless I want to convey something in private when we're with others, (although I think that is rude when done a lot, so I keep it for emergencies), or when we retire at night and are alone.
I also like what Shirley said about saying 'bon jour' when passing people in the street, or waiting in line at the boulengerie, or something.
Written French is hard as well, spelling is as varied as English I'm afraid, and it's kept me from communicating with my French family, for I didn't want to make mistakes. It took a long time to compose something in writing, for I went over and over it, correcting and asking my hubby to proof-read, SHEESH! I don't care about making mistakes now, and recently decided that even though I WILL make mistakes for awhile when I write, (say on fb, or e-mail), it won't be forever. I want to connect more than ever with my (large and friendly), family in France, mistakes or not.
I live in Uzes, Liz. I have checked out there is a l'Université Populaire de l'Uzège that has very reasonable lessons in French. I'm going to sign up for beginners classes in mid September. There is another association that I need to check out again. I walked into their office one day and found no one speaks English. They did say there is a weekly French class. So yes, there are many options -- almost too many!
Deborah - where in the south of France are you? Just a thought - I have over the years seen in FPN (French Property News) that there are various groups all over France that meet up from time to time, and although these are mainly English speaking people, I'm they will all have a story or two to tell you how they got on with learning to speak French and how it might work for you too. Have you ever thought of volunteering with maybe elderly people, as they will help you along leaning the language. The fact that you are trying to get to grips with their language, they will appreciate you trying as well as the help they get from you, and return you might learn a bit of French along the way... :)
As for being disappointed with my first blog with SFN? Not at all! I have gotten some really great information, suggestions and resources to check out. Thank you all for your interest and time spent telling me your tales. I'll keep you posted as this sorts itself out. I have plenty of time. I hear 60 is the new 40!
Suzanne, I agree the way toddlers learn how to speak is idyllic, but to do so you have to immerse for hours everyday in the language, and be fully concentrate on your activities as kids can do, with no hope of using another idiom to achieve or get what you intensely want . Honestly, when do we put ourselves in such situations now ? Plus, kids are cared, people are automatically patient and helpful with them . As an adult, your peers can't approach you in the same way .
So each time I had to learn a language I did it the ancestral way and it worked . By that I mean I could get what I want, being able to chat all night long with pals about any subject, even in slightly alterate states of co,science . To know a people, there is no getting around, you have to speak with its members, with a lot of them, to freely speak about things of life, and IN the language, because our language frames our world . Of course the ancestral way needs working, systematically in the beginning . Landing in a new country, I always carry a small pocket dictionary and a grammar/conjugation booklet . Basic needed words, and the whole time in public buses learning conjugation and grammar (English is the only dialect I learnt where conjugation/grammar are not a vital matter, for ordinary tongues they are) .The motivation is you learn what you just missed minutes before . And every evening, every morning, learning, remembering, imagining future situations and repeating until it becomes natural . I can tell you it works, pretty fast, and if you're graced enough to love music, pronounciation is promptly not that bad .For sure that means travelling alone and being ready to work intensively for 3 weeks, 2 months, one year depending on the language . As anything else, for ordinarily gifted people, it is a question of motivation .
Apologies to Deborah too, SFN isn't normally like this!
Yes Lis, I quite agree with you. We have had a spate of this kind of behavior recently. I will be dealing with it, please don't leave us!
Here's another good reason to learn French and not just as a youngster Speaking a Second Language Delays onset of Dimensia. Keep telling my other half this - each time he thinks his French language has deteriorated. Keep on trying.
Oh dear - Shirley, I got it wrong all again...yes, I am considerate a kind and tolerant person, at least that is what the many people I am know think I am! Think you should read my 'ranting' again, as it was meant not in a nasty way, far from it! However,I feel sorry for Bedorah who only asked for help and advice nothings else, and I have not seen one reply from her, as I'm sure she sitting back taking a deep breath...as I said there are far more important things going on in the world...but I guess I got it all wrong......but then I'm just going to stop here, as you so kindly reminded me I could always stop and out and leave SFN altogether! PS! My name is Lis not Liz... :)
I agree Jean and having watched my 2 children go to maternelle with very little French and now hearing them fluent, I've observed their approach to communication skills. Much of it involves watching, participating and copying, eventually being brave enough to use the language. My middle daughter was silent for the first 5 months school but then she had the confidence to start talking and now she is comfortable and at ease. The eldest started trying straight away. I am unusual to have put 2 both similar age into a non-maternal language school at the same time so being able to observe their different learning styles. The other thing I found interesting was that the other children wanted to communicate with them so they made up a common language - a cross between basic English and French. Young children aren't as concerned about making mistakes or being as embarrassed as us older folks but they did feel the need to communicate and that was their motivation. It's been a fascinating journey so far.
Question : when one learned a foreign language at school, how did we consider this ? a subject as maths, history or did we see that as a mean of communication. As far as I am concerned, it became a lot easier once I considered it as a way of communicating. I found it very frustrating not to be able to talk and I found a motivation.
I sometimes am amazed of the discussions that goes on (..and on and on and on...) here on SFN? People are asking simple questions like for help/advise, and all of a sudden that request, whatever it might have been, as all of a sudden it's seriously past tense, seems to been completely forgotten, as some people go on and on and on 'their own page'! Now what was it Deborah Bine asked about? I think she just wanted some kind and helpful hints, not the on-going ranting, how can that help her, let alone some people who might need other kinds of help, and after seeing yet another ranting, will be very wary of even asking for help, let alone be on SFN anymore! Oi you lovely people of your out and about in la belle France, you are here, enjoy that you are in a place you have chosen to be, and don't get to bloody uptight about completely unimportant things, far more serous things are happening around the world...so that's my ranting for the day - please try and have a good day, whatever is the remaining of it! :)
Hi Vic and yes I did notice, thank you
& Hi Brian, I agree entirely which again is the point I was making not least based on my own experience and that of my wife as she and I learn in quite different ways. My background is science and maths so I learn thru structure, Caroline is a designer so she absorbs subjects. As I say damned if I know how she does it.
But I have been taught at school, OK the old fashioned way, tried one on one lessons, didn't work, either in French or Serbian, tried group lessons, better than one on one but we all moved at very different speeds and as I say I found it best when I read essentially text books and used the language in conversation and by writing.
Made lots of mistakes, unrepeatable for this blog, but hey ho!