Agree there John, but it is Doreen moving!!!!
No, read again, I do not like French coffee. I was quite explicit there. Also, not in defence of it, why should the French change their preference to 'American' imitation of Italian coffees for anybody's pleasure. In Rome, do as the Romans do and all that. No, other countries do not offer far more choice, some do. In fact, the majority I have visited do a bad job of coffee or are very different, the so-called 'Turkish' coffee from Greece to parts of China and down well into India that I have never really got to grips with is consumed by as many people worldwide as any other kind. They like that best. Kaldi, the origin of the word coffee and the trees it comes from, in Ethiopia does nothing for me, even in Brazil who are the biggest commercial grower of coffee they drink wishy-washy muck and one of the many Italian cafés that do goog coffee are always full and the espresso good there. However, the French like coffee their way and that might compare with the tar known as tea in which milk and sugar are thrown in the UK, my Scots folk being even tarrier than south of the border. Even noticed how the rest of the world responds to that? Equivalence in this case, but picking holes like that is always going to pick up all the things that make you titter because you don't agree.
Yes yes yes John but do you like the coffee? Is it hot? Do you like sitting on people's knees - in traffic? I know you're having a wonderful time on your other planet but what's the coffee like? Come on spill the beans.....
It is well known that hundreds possibly thousands of pubs in the UK have closed through lack of trade, even after they raised their games. The amount of bureaucracy, tied house system, drink driving restrictions and peoples busy life styles have all contributed. But now beware, those arbiters of public taste the town and country planners have decided that pubs are community centres (paid for by somebody esle other than the town council) and must be protected at all costs (somebody else's) even if they economically unviable. Even the brewers are getting out of pubs, just preferring hotels and restaurants. It's happened here in France too. When I arrived in my village in 72 there were 14 bars. Now there are two, one of which is a British pub doing English pub food.
Why pay more David? Because I lurrrrve it! Couldn't care less about advertising or corporate tax evasion :-)
I’m going to ask, “Where the hell have you been for the last 20 years?” The situation that you describe is not one I recognise as my part of France. I ate inside a restaurant yesterday, it was too hot to eat outside despite adequate shade, and commented to my daughter how it was the first time I’d eaten inside since February. Clothes shops abound as do Subways and a variety of coffee shops. I often look around €uro shops even though I rarely buy anything. I enjoy holidays in the UK and like nothing more than having a beer in a rural pub but that is there and it’s no better than drinking in the street bars in Düsseldorf of mountain cafés in the Alps. Each experience is different to my local environment yet I see hundreds of tourists enjoying a coffee in the cafés of my local French town. They all seem to be having a good time so they can’t all be wrong.
I have lived in Europe for most of my adult life and have felt privilidged to be able to enjoy a lifestyle, every day, that many Britons only experience when on holiday. As mentioned I enjoy short trips to England but I am so relieved to get home after the traffic, the in your face commercialism and the crowds. France suits me, that’s why I choose to live here but I hate the way some expats seem intent to run down their domicile of choice at every opportunity. I find it hard to believe that I come from the same nation as many posters on these expat sites, let alone live in the same country that they describe. We seem to live on different planets. It’s not about rose tinted glasses it’s about making positive, informed decisions and taking the occasional rough with the overriding smooth.
I wish Doreen all the best in her move. The choice between living in the UK and France should not be a competition about which is best but a personal decision based on and individual’s needs and desires.
I find it amazing how, by making a few 'life' observations, it seems to provoke an avalanche of assumptions.....it does make me titter.
French coffee hasn't changed in 50 years (if ever) - many other countries offer far more choice - I know that's a difficult concept for some to accept....
Brian, I don't like French coffee - you do. That's fine with me.....
To be honest I have found my ability to really taste or enjoy certain foods or drinks has deteriorated over the years but generally I have found the best coffee served at simple places is in Italy- very short but I now ask for doubles which some find a great sin. My coffee consumption generally has plumetted. My taste in wines has also changed enormously. I'm afraid I drink very little red now but I used to lurrrrve my Burgundies and at one stage had a great cellar. I think this must also to be connected in some way to my declining purchasing power! You can keep your Starbucks and Costas though- why pay more to service their spending on advertising, corporate tax evasion etc?
How strange then that it takes a French friend who is a wine trader to say often how much the pub trade in England is dying. He has often said how many have tried being restaurants, often failed and joined the many closing down. The small pubs offering specialised, local beers are often overpriced for nothing special (he is now a connoisseur of English beer, drinks that as often as wine) but they too are not doing well. He thinks there is a Lidl-isation of beer drinking with mediocre pilsners replacing good hop and malt beers.
As for American coffee. That is foul muck that I would not like to see here. OK, I am a snob who drinks Italian coffee, preferring espresso to anything else, albeit it rationed nowadays. In France a good espresso is easy to find, latte (milky coffee whichever language) and cappuccino are ubiquitous but then even in Italy both are often awful. MacDonalds have never had coffee worth touching, worldwide... Blaming France for bad coffee, hmm dubious. Starbucks, Café Costa and other chains do not make coffee any better than X necessarily and I have also had stuff I nearly spat out in SW19 let alone Bordeaux. As for the restaurants you have where people are crammed in, well at least many are still run by families hence close a couple of days a week, but then don't restaurants owned and run by proprietors do so in the UK as well, unless that has changed in recent years? Closed most of the summer? That would be a strange restaurant if it did that, times are hard enough without trying that trick.
Anyway, my point here is nostalgia for what is the modern UK, full of latte at Starbucks (American), eating at MacDonalds (American) and so on consuming mass produced products which come out of boxes and packets is hardly reflecting the 50 years of change I started with. But OK, if you miss US imitation UK that much and only see grey to black in France... Looking at the UK that way, I tend to think that perhaps he is not noticing how much the UK has changed and that perhaps some of the things he thinks have changed for the worse or are in a time warp here are actually (albeit it marginally) far better than the UK. But then, is it all not down to individual taste and preference, in which case how dare we in fact be critical of either country?
It is so very hard to find a really good cup of coffee here in the countryside of France. On the other hand
I find the commercial coffee companies like Starbucks are fooling the coffee drinking Londoners.
The coffee which they serve ....to my mind....is not good.
We had a deli café in London and brought our commercial machine with us. We buy beans and grind them to
order. It is not hard work....but it is flavoursome coffee.Simple.
But flavour.....or discovering and appreciating it has been lost in time!
Having been back to London about a year ago I keep my memories of that visit close
at hand and believe that there really is a price to pay for everything....
Quality costs money.Always.
Some of us need it. Some of us learn to live with out it and others carve it and
can not find it. Some of us have never experienced it.
France in all her innocence or UK in her omniscience .....we need to learn how
to change with life and accept what we have and enjoy it.
Doreen - how exciting! I wish you all the very best with your new adventure.
You've sparked me off again I'm afraid! I just love Starbucks, Costa, Cafe Nero , Ritazza etc and miss them like heck. I much prefer the Americanised coffee experience to the French one - which mostly consists of lukewarm tar-like sludge. I have rarely had a decent cup of coffee here and nearly always send them back for re-heating! Have you ever seen the excuse for a latte that McDonalds France call a 'Double Latte' - pitiful? Anyway, rumour has it that Starbucks will soon be opening in Toulouse - hallelujah as we spring into the 21st century....
Ahhhh - Summer evenings in pubs and you're sooooo right about the lack of outdoor spaces at bars and restaurants in France. In fact I think the title of my book of my experiences in France may be entitled 'A Nation Behind Shutters....'! Then there's the 'cosy' French restaurants where your fellow diners almost sit on your knee, or you on theirs - such a lovely, inclusive idea (not!). It's almost like being at a fête - mind you that's a whole different book. The very same restaurants that are closed Mondays, evenings, weekends, jours fériés and most of the Summer.
Doreen Bailey I sincerely hope you and your OH have a soft and happy landing in the UK, which all depends where you are going. In 20 years the traffic has doubled or trebled at least. Food is fine if you can find or afford the more individual or pricey locations, but even in tourist areas here it is hard to find a country pub. The population grew by almost 1/2 million last year alone, and at that rate is double what was quoted here for France since 1989. The emphasis is heading towards work till you drop. Property in London is being bought by foreign investors, who will even keep it empty, simply to "trade" it and get a high return on their money. The London bubble is still different to the rest of the country, however towns are becoming clones of each other. Housing the same, huge warehouses everywhere, intensive farming. I guess everywhere changes, often because lots of people go there because it was nice, that influx brings change.
@ John - people are here for all sorts of reasons. And sometimes those reasons are not neccesarily of their own choosing. Factor in 'getting stuck' and maybe you can see your way to empathising!! :)
Constructive criticism is one thing, a never ending list of things that are worse in France than elsewhere is something else.
If I get really bored or depressed perhaps I’ll take up golf. I haven’t reached that level of desperation yet. 
Marie-Claire - have a good life.....
Jonathan, 50 years ago, there were far more women working and earning a living in France than in the UK. Granted, they also cooked for lunch as most people had a longer lunch break… it is no longer the case.
Brian my point was about price and choice. the French consumer simply does not realise how deprived and ripped off they are!
You are such a tease Jane - how delicious ! :-P
Oh, I thought the meat was too tough for you to chew, I'm glad to hear you have a source. I'm not belittling anyone, I just believe that it makes life easier to pick and choose who I spend time at a barbecue with, rather than go, and then make disparaging comments about them, whether they are more, or less fortunate than I am.
I think that if you do have to stay in a country which you may not care for because of family circumstances, then the least you can do for the aforementioned family is do your best to enjoy it.
Huge Catharine - with a proper pourer built in - makes me feel like Tom Cruise in 'Cocktail' !