Are electric vehicles really so climate friendly?

I don’t subscribe (but might have a “login” now I think about it) but it showed me the article.

OK, he saves £800 off his bills. Very good.

To do that he massively increases the wear and tear on his car’s battery

Nissan leaf batteries cost £5k to replace.

Might not be such a good investment once all the costs are factored in.

Plus, surely only any good if the car is at your home during the day?

Would it be ok to leave off references to Nissan leaf? They made a big error in not actively cooling their battery but to blight an industry that do actively cool the batteries seems bias and unfair.
The soon out Nissan Ariya has active battery cooling so they have learnt their lesson although the Ariya was designed by a completely different team.

Telsa is about the same, if you replace it outside warranty.

Considering the difference in size of the battery pack that would be a bit of a bargain. The last I heard from a Tesla driving mini cab in the west county, he had racked up just over 500,000 miles with 10% degradation. That £5000 would equate with the cost of a replacement engine for an ICE car?

InsideEVs: Sion Power Announces 17 Ah Licerion-EV Cells: 400 Wh/kg Energy Density.

Maybe, but batteries will get cheaper, plus any ICE vehicle with 500,000 miles on the clock will have used a hefty amount of engine oil plus a plethora of other items that need changing (oil & air filters, fanbelts, water pumps, cambelts, clutch parts etc), which EVs do not have. That’s before mentioning the extended brake component life due to the use of regen braking.

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Absolutely Jonathan!

Having driven a fair few of them now, it’s a pity they are so totally soulless to drive.
It’s like watching Formula E, just like listening to a giant scalextric set :slightly_frowning_face:

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Thats why Elon puts a sense of fun into his, who doesnt love a whoopi cushion😂

Yes it was a problem with a faulty batch of LGchem batteries, a bit of old news.
Similarly the Chevrolet LG chem batteries.

Well he is very wrong, more and more EV battery recycling plants are opening or expanding so not news just on-line chip paper click bait call it what you want but even emails and online costs energy and when pointless a bigger waste.

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Given the existing problems with, and environmental impact of, recycling e-waste, together with the fact tha EVs still have a relatively modest market penetration - 10-15 years ago it was <1% so we’re currently only dealing with 1-2% of the battery recycling that needs to happen once all cars are EVs I think it is a legitimate concern.

So 98% of the batteries are going where? Certainly if anyone finds battery packs discarded please let me know, I will be there like a shot.
Looking at the other side of the coin consider the waste from ICE cars, the oil for the fuel has to be mined, cannot for the major part be re used and polutes our environment to the point of reducing some peoples life span.
The petrochemical industry already uses many of the components to refine and remove elements such as sulphur from our fuel but the focus is only on the new cleaner greener modes of personal transportation.
I saw a program on a massive German (automated) recycling plant that is massively under capacity as it has been spec’d for the future when they expect more batteries tobe end of life. But after the car has finished the batteries they can be used as power storage for homes and factories. Tesla use them to offset power use at many of their factories. Others will naturally follow suit. When looking at the circular economy home power generation, EV’s, powerwalls and ultimately end of life recycling of materials is quite outstanding when compared to other industries.

I did not say that 98% of end-of-life EV batteries are being disposed of incorrectly (though I bet the figure is nothing like it needs to be).

I said the current volume of end-of-life EV batteries is only a couple of percent what it will  be once all cars are EVs.

Yes ICE engines burn through oil - but until all electricity is from “clean” sources so do EVs. And the rest of an EV is no more or less recyclable than a petro/diesel engined vehicle.

TBH I’d like to see the focus on less personal transportation overall - but public transport has to “work” for the journeys that people want to make which often isn’t the case. It will be interesting to see whether office workers flock back to the office or say “actually, I’m happier working at home” post Covid.

Sometimes public transport demonstrably gets worse - about 20 years ago I had a job in Cheltenham. I could catch a train, taking my bike, and arrive at the office for about 08:50 which was perfect and the daily exercise certainly helped me keep the weight down.

10 years ago I found miself back in Cheltenham - this time I thought “easy, I’ll go back to the train” only to find that my options were, for some inexplicable reason, to arrive at 08:00 or 09:45 - the useful commuter service having been withdrawn. Needless to say I wound up driving to the detriment of the environment and my waistline.

Yes, they might have a useful 2nd life, they will still ultimately need disposal/recycling though.

The components are too valuable to scrap so they are and will be recovered. The biggest delay is the resources to build more batteries therefore the supply chain demands it. Elon Musk said to the battery manufacturers only the other week, " I will buy all the batteries you can make" thats a big signal to the industry and to his suppliers. Lower cost vehicles are on the way Tesla A model with lithium iron phosphate and VW with their matix battery at 50% of the battery cost of Li-on. Shanghai motor show, BYD and their new proprietary battery quoting 600 miles range. Hyundai EV5 400/800 volt charging. On the right charger 100miles in 5 mins. Things are improving and Co’s want the batteries back at the end so they can recover and re use. UK is around 50% renewable energy and very little fossil, ICE vehicles are the worry as many of those are old and contain nasty things that are not recycled.

Do you think EV’s are really fire safe in a crash?

Are emergency staff who attend accidents routinely trained in how to be themselves safe and keep possibly injured passengers safe if an EV is involved?

“By the time even the smallest embers were finally out, many hours after the crash, somewhere between 25,000 and 30,000 gallons were used, Buck said.”

That’s a lot of water :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Part of the article linked to after your post suggests that EVs are much less likely to be a crash fire hazard, but people have been happy driving around for years in ICE vehicles that carry many tens of litres of highly volatile liquid in relatively flimsy containers.

To quote the article…
"Although the chief acknowledges EV fires require different tactics by firefighters, Tesla and government safety data asserts that traditional internal-combustion vehicles experience one fire for every 19 million miles traveled; for Teslas EVs, it’s one fire for 205 million miles traveled."

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