Boiler help

I agree about the roof… but not necessarily about the inside… eg: our church is packed to the gunnels, chairs everywhere and with a crowd left standing at the back by the doors…
Sadly not an inch of space for batteries.

However, I don’t doubt that the idea could work well with some/many churches.

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Crikey, what a lot of sinners :joy:

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cheeky chappy!!
Yesterday’s wedding… we had 140 adults seated (plus what seemed like hundreds of little kids perched on laps or racing up and down the aisle) … and other adults standing/fidgeting…
'twas a lovely ceremony and the celebrations went on right through the night… in the SdFetes though, not in the church. :wink:

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My advice would be to use this to your advantage and refuse to sign unless you get a significant discount to cover the replacement. This would also need to be a different system as oil is no longer supported. Take it as a bonus as there is no time get full and proper quotes in.
Allow €15,000 if the property is small to medium size (3 bed plus 2 or 3 other rooms to heat)

Stick to your guns on this. Do not accept this last minute fudge from the seller.

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They didn’t ask at their mairie before making any important plans, or even trivial ones, so the entire village had a lot to confess.

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We have signed but the Notaire holding back a significant amount until a devis comes in or it must be replaced. 🫣

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Sorry but this is not quite correct. May I refer you to my earlier post at item 13 above.

The other factor to consider is that the planet will run out of hydrocarbons (used to produce fuel) within the next 20 to 30 years and this timeframe will continue to reduce if consumption does not reduce. The oil industry is desperate to pump every last drop of oil out, before the alternative solutions are commercially more acceptable!!!

You are correct.

The heat pumps using propane as a refrigerent are for higher temperature work (80C) so can replace a gas/oil burner, at least the dont burn the gas.

@Corona Do you happen to know whether it is practical, safe, and possible to install and use a heat pump (aerothermie), inside a building in an attic or cellar space with the exhaust air ducted to the outside ?

The issue is the volume of warm air will get used up pretty quickly. How that works in reality I dont know. We have a heat pump installed in a plant room at work to capture some of the heat in that room and put it into a mains pressure hot water cylinder. Mind you these systems will be altered under my msnagement as time goes on with Mitsubishi taking a large part with their modular heat and cooling units. Also I am looking, on Thursday at some pretty cool evaporative cooling units using no refrigerent gasses so cannot go out of date and about twice as efficient as a compressor AC unit.

I read that as MISmanagement! A Freudian slip? I’m sure nothing you do is mismanaged. :grinning:

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Trying to type on a moving bus hahaha, I catch most of them but arrived at work so hadnt checked :relaxed:

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@ Robert_Hodge - your comments re F30 etc. are interesting, can you expand on them please? We have a 25+ year-old Ideal Standard low temperature oil boiler and I wonder if that would be adaptable?

My immediate thought also was to replace it with another more ‘acceptable’ heat source. There is a fairly generous scheme to help persons resident in France (I think I’m right) so that would need checking out. If you consider repairing the existing boiler try to find out how old it is and whether spares are still available.

It should be possible to purchase a replacement brûleur fioul or upgrade to you existing at some time in the not too distant future so it can run on F30. But it seems it may also be necessary to replace the copper pipework with stainless steel or similar pipes?

Ethanol is distilled in copper vats with copper pipes and soldered/brazed joints. No issues, I think a lot of dodgy types will be exploiting people just like the Digital aerial saga.

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from

De fait, la marque a changé la tête de combustion, la géométrie de la flamme, mais aussi les matériaux utilisés pour les flexibles et la tuyauterie interne afin d’éviter le cuivre, sujet à l’oxydation.

from
De Dietrich https://chauffage-couverture-gauthier.com/mesfichiers/fichiers/DD_DEPLIANT_BIOFIOUL_F30_BAT9%20copie_compressed.pdf
COTÉ INSTALLATION
L’alimentation du brûleur devra obligatoirement être mono-tube avec
un filtre mono-tube avec dégazeur.
Cuivre et laiton sont à proscrire sur l’alimentation comme les flexibles non F30
compatibles. L’inox, l’alu, le polyéthylène haute densité, le polyamide et les plastiques
renforcés de fibre de verre sont à privilégier

@Deuxanes Basically, since July 1st, it is no longer permissible to install a new domestic boiler system in France if the emissions exceed 300 gr of CO2 équivalent/kWh PCI. This is true regardless of whether it is fired by some type of gas, some form of wood, solid fuel, or liquid fuel of some type. A boiler which runs on 100% fossil fuel oil cannot get under the emissions threshold, and therefore cannot be fitted.
However, a liquid fuel boiler designed or adapted to run on a mix of fossil fuel and at least 30% plant derived esters (known as F30 fuel) has emissions which are below the 300 gr limit, and therefore can be installed lawfully. The claims made by some interested parties that all liquid fuel boilers have been banned, and that therefore one of their expensive alternatives must be purchased, are simply untrue.

Many liquid fuel boilers manufactured over the last 30 years or so have what is basically a self contained, bolt on, burner unit, and so by changing the burner unit the old boiler can be made to run on the new F30 fuel with emissions below the 300 gr threshold. New liquid fuel boilers being manufactured are all now F30 compatible, and furthermore will be fine for F50 fuel which is envisaged to arrive on the market in 2030, and indeed even the F100 fuel which is scheduled to arrive in 2040.
The question of whether your particular model of 25+ year old Ideal Standard boiler can be updated to run on F30 is one for the manufacturer to answer. Alternatively, a competent boiler maintenance and servicing company should (that being the operative word) be able to find out for you, though don’t be surprised if they would prefer to sell you a new boiler altogether.

Currently there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting advice from the different parties involved in converting to F30. Some say that the existing fuel oil tank must be cleaned, while others say that mixing F30 with 100% fossil fuel is fine, and that a F30 boiler will run on either traditional 100% fossil fuel, F30, or indeed a mixture of both. Of course running a F30 compatible boiler on 100% traditional fossil fuel will NOT meet the emissions requirements, and so I suspect that this is the reason why some companies say that tank cleansing to remove the existing 100% fossil fuel is required.

Currently, it has to be admitted that there is a problem with the price of F30 fuel in that it is around 15 cents per litre more expensive. From my reading on the subject it seems that this will be in good part offset by the fact that F30 gives more heat per litre, and so total consumption is reduced. At the end of the day we are all going to have to pay a bit more to avoid further wrecking the climate more than we absolutely have to, so the added expense of the F30 fuel is worth the peace of mind of knowing that it reduces harmful emissions compared to using 100% fossil fuel oil. I understand there are currently ongoing negotiations between the F30 producers and the French Gov’t to try and have the fuel tax removed from the non fossil fuel part of the F30. Hopefully some accommodation of each parties needs will be forthcoming, and the price per litre of F30 will come down closer to that of 100% fossil fuel.

The issue raised by @anon37731102 is an interesting one that I have not heard of previously. I find it of particular interest that there is talk of having to change the internal pipework to avoid the use of copper. I have a 22 yr old Franco Belge boiler with a standard type of bolt on burner unit which doesn’t have any copper pipe in it that I can see, despite having had the thing all in bits on a couple of occasions. I intend to change the burner unit to go F30 compatible once my local fuel supplier has F30 available. I would fit new flexible connections anyway as they don’t last forever and the current ones have been in place for at least 19 years. Changing the fuel feed pipes from the tank to the boiler would not be a big problem IF it turns out to be necessary, although in common with @Corona I have my doubts on that particular point.
Hope this helps.

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