I’m with you all the way Jane. I will never forgive those who have denied not just me but my children and future generations the freedom to live , work and travel in Europe. My dad died aged 93 just after the referendum . He spent many years of his retirement sailing the Med , travelling through France on his boat & it was moored on France and Italy. He was heartbroken that what he saw as one of the the outcomes of what he fought for in WWII - 40+ years of peace could be overturned & said the U.K. would rue the day it left the EU. He could be a cantankerous old bugger at times but he was usually right . Heaven help us all as goodness knows politicians won’t .
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We have physical evidence of that here already in the Aude Jane . Months of high temperatures then violent torrential rain . And although it’s being called a 100 yr event you don’t have to look so far back to find other catastrophic floods in nearby regions or hurricanes that are becoming stronger . … there’s a film called The Day After Tomorrow some would do well to watch. Bit too close to what is happening in the world for comfort.
the most important phrase… “it is keeping peace in Europe itself” that alone speaks louder than ANYTHING ELSE
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My dad and two of his friends joined the RAF on the declaration of war even though they were well over call up age.
They were sent to the french border with Germany to work with barrage balloons to protect planes involved in surveillance over Germany.
Thry were too far from Dunkirk to be withdrawn from there and walked nearly all the way across France to be evacuated from St Nazaire.
There they were turned away from the Lancastria and went on to see it being bombed
and blown up with thousands of UK forces dying.
This was the more poignant for them as they became friends at Lancaster Grammar School and thought that Lancastria had come to save them.
Churchill put a news blackput on this tragedy because he was worried on the effect it would have had on civilian morale.
We are the first generation which has never been called up to fight a war in Europe and it grieves me that there are people who do not consider that more important than returning to being Little Britainers in splendid isolation in their island home.
It is totally beyond belief that people who have chosen to take advantage of lving in a Europe where people are free to move and live where they choose are happy denying that to the young people now at University who would normally spread their wings and at least for some time, choose to live and work in Europe.
Peace in Europe is a state we have had the fortune to enjoy and maybe those advocating Brexit have not thought that the rosy future they are advocating may include their future generations going to war.
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Well you’ve one here who along with Jane is very upset. If nothing else I cannot forgive the anxiety it has caused to millions . Many who voted leave possibly the majority had no idea what they were voting for. Many bang on about losing control, sovereignty etc etc. All proven after the fact to be lies. Many of the “laws” put forward by the EU were not adopted in the U.K. or elsewhere in Europe for that matter . The majority don’t give a jot how the removal of the U.K. will affect UK citizens in Europe or vice versa. I care what future the once “Great “ Britain will have post March. Not just from a personal standpoint as I’ve weateree worse at the hands of the U.K. or rather it’s inhabitants and it’s institutionalised narrow mindedness but for the future of students on the Erasmus programme , those who will be denied opportunities to travel, study, live and move between countries . People who have worked hard to set up businesses and homes in both the U.K. and the EU only to see them threatened or destroyed . Don’t tell me that won’t happen as it already is. I have friends European and British who have faltering businesses because investors are concerned about the uncertainty so won’t give contracts out. It has impacted already on disabled people in schemes in the U.K . An issue I care deeply about . EU Funding to organisations already cash strapped because of government austerity measures and local authority cut backs has and will dry up leaving vulnerable people and their parents without access to those services they rely on daily in order to cope and get through life. People who hoped to work, set up in business or retire to Europe or the U.K. will face incredible hurdles and the U.K. will become an even more divided place with only the rich allowed in whilst the poor get poorer Quite apart from the damage Brexit has done to the economy it has forever ruined the reputation of the U.K. on the world stage . If you don’t believe me then for goodness sake inform yourself and watch outstanding formerly pro British EU officials such as Guy Verhofstadt speak. It’s all over YouTube . The U.K. is worse than a laughing stock it is now seen as a nation not to be trusted . Macron said as much recently. May has put ridiculous bars in place for EU citizens to meet . Her income requirement debars most of the professions the U.K. needs the most - doctors, nurses , care workers . The list goes on. If you don’t believe the EU will reciprocate you must be very naieve or ill informed and I suggest you read the recently issued draft legislation issued by France . I have yet to encounter one leave voter who is able to list the benefits of leaving the EU . If they think it is so easy to leave then why han’t a deal been done? . Why with less than 6 months to go are the UK’s politicians still squabbling among themselves? The EU is exasperated and fed up with the U.K. Do you honestly believe the 27 will want anything to do with the U.K. after March? I wouldn’t if I was doing business with them . As for the smug “I’m alright Jack because I’m wealthy and already resident “brigade I hope for your sakes nothing nasty befalls you. Life isn’t just about money or possessions or security . Life is or should be about caring not just for yourself or your family but for ALL those around you or in fact in the world at large. That means caring how your actions will affect those with less means than yours . Caring about everyone. All the planning and financial security in the world can’t stop the inevitable fact that we will all get old and one day die not can it prevent disasters or illness. I’m a firm believer in Karma . Sooner or later those who don’t care will find themselves on the receiving end of it one way or another.
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I empathise with every Brit who doesn’t want Brexit, I don’t want it myself, I would be delighted and immensely relieved if it gets cancelled, but I do recognise that there is life for Westerners outside EU membership, and I really don’t think it helps to keep saying woe is me and listing all the reasons to be bitter and miserable. Folks from Australia, NZ, the US, Switzerland etc manage to cope perfectly well. They visit Europe, they even move to live in Europe. They’re not on the brink of starting wars, leaving Trump aside. Are you saying that their lives are all by definition second rate because it’s not possible to lead a fulfilling life if you’re not an EU citizen? surely not. So if they can do it, why can’t Brits?
Nobody can deny that the government is making a dreadful pig’s ear of the process, it’s dug itself into a hole and it keeps digging, but that’s a different issue. My point here is that the Western world does not start and stop with the EU.
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May I just point out that those folk who live in France and consider themselves Resident/safe (whether by the piece of paper or just through length of time)… are not necessarily rich… far from it most of them …
and perhaps “smug” is wrongly perceived by others… when these folk simply have other, more important issues that they have to deal with right now… rather than something that might or might not ever happen… at some stage in the future…
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One of our family members has already lost their business due to Brexit.
Contracts cancelled or postponed immediately after the Referendum and the reason given in every case, uncertainty due to Brexit.
They were very nearly made homeless and only saved by other family members.
Research contracts between UK and European universities not renewed, the Erasmus programme for students,
all this for the benefit of future generations?
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I think Vanessa is probably thinking of people like Nigel Lawson when she talks of people being"smug" living in France and voting for Brexit.
Fortunately, peopke like them are few and far between, but they do have influence. Nigel Lawson, apart from being a rabid Brexiteer, also funds a climate change denying pressure group. Enough said!
Would I like to be associated with the same thinking as him? No thanks.
Many people have moved to Europe because they have sold their home in UK and bought significantly cheaper over here, especially in Spain, where the cost of living is also cheaper.
These people, often on restricted incomes, have already lost 13% of their annual incomes due to the fall in the exchange rate.
All we hear about is how hard it will be for familiesin UK , who have mortgaged themselves to the hilt, when interest rates rise.
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We came here to live fulfilling lives as Europeans, not etrangers!
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Stella I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular and I agree perhaps smug is not the right word. But there are those on this and other forums who ARE clearly wealthy and who appear to not just brag about it but seem to want to warn others off from pursuing their hopes and dreams unless they’ve wads of cash in the bank. I was trying hard not to make my comments personal but there are always some who will interpret them that way .
To make a personal comment though, my own life has been fraught with difficulties too numerous to mention but throughout it all my values have always been to care about others . No matter what has happened I have somehow come through it and I believe firmly that has to do with how you behave towards others . I’ve survived stuff that would’ve made others become alcoholics or drug addicts or the like. It has perhaps given me an empathy with the less fortunate and has made me grateful for what I do have but also mindful that others may not be so strong and able to survive .
The point I was also trying to make in my post is that the actions of a minority - and if you take that in terms of the 3% who tipped the balance of the result, whatever the deal or no deal, WILL affect and HAS already affected in one way or another, the lives of millions. That’s what I care about.
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But times change, there’s nothing new in that, and people have to adapt. Given the choice between living a fulfilling life in France as a non-EU citizen, and living a bitter life as an ex-EU citizen looking back at what you lost, which will you choose?
PS I find your terminology very confusing, and I do wonder if you’re confusing yourself with it too. You seem to be using “etranger” to mean a non-EU citizen, whereas to a French person an anglaise is by definition an étrangère because they are not French. And I take it that when you say European, you specifically mean an EU citizen. You will always be a European because the UK will always be in Europe, even if/when it’s no longer a member of the EU.
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Etranger because it is plural, I am not married to another woman.
Ok I should have used the plural, but please stop nit-picking.
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Well said Jane. Je suis European! It says so on my passport! Hopefully my application to europa.eu to remain as such will bear fruit and it will continue to say so though I doubt it. My sister voted leave. She only reads the popular press & listens to Sky News & the BBC’s blatantly biased propaganda and shuns any form of social media in the belief it will steal her identity or worse. She is now moaning about the demise of sterling and how it’s going to affect the cost of their holidays . When I point out it affects my whole life and that of millions of other Britons and others who have moved to Europe she changes the subject !
We called a truce and agreed we wouldn’t talk about politics , Brexit or anything remotely associated with those topics .
So now when I see her she sits avidly watching documentaries or the BBC News agreeing vociferously with all they spout and banging on about how climate change is all a myth . I meanwhile am not allowed to voice an opinion. If I say anything in return I’m immediately accused of starting an argument. So now an invisible wall of silence exists between us. She hated my moving to France and was in tears at my leaving and I can’t even tell her that it’s her actions that led me to come here.
I wasn’t nitpicking about that. Etranger, étrangère, étrangers, it’s all the same - to the French, anyone who is not français (with its various endings) is étranger (with its various endings). Some étrangers are EU ressortissants and some aren’t, but if you’re not French then you are foreign, as per the primary definition in Larousse https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/étranger_étrangère/31536
- Qui est d’un autre pays, qui n’a pas la nationalité du pays où il se trouve : Son père est français, sa mère est étrangère.
[A person from another country, who does not have the nationality of the country she/he is in. Father is French, mother is foreign.]
What I’m trying to say is that at present, you are a European, but in France you are an étrangère. Post Brexit you wll still be a European and also an étrangère. You seem to be worrying that your entire identity will change but in fact, these two things won’t change at all.
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I’m with you on this Vanessa, I was just re-posting Sandy’s views from another thread.
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Absolutely Stella. as much as I hate the idea of Brexit I have way more important things on my plate at the moment.
And rich… that’s a laugh!!.. our income has dwindled to less than 900€ per month and we live in a tiny HLM flat and I drive a 17 year old Ford Fiesta.
Fortunately, hubby has been here more than 20 years and I have been here 11 so I know we are safe based on French law. If we need to apply for a CdS I will sort it out when it becomes necessary.
Worrying and moaning achieves nothing. None of us can personally do anything about it, it is out of hands, we will all have to make the best of whatever kind of Brexit we get and I doubt it is going to be anyway near as bad for those of us in France as everyone fears.
I am going to live in the here and now and cherish every day I have left with my lovely hubby. Brexit can f**k off!
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Take care Mandy… chin up… 
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Thanks Stella.
Today’s an OK day (despite the kettle dying on me) and I get a couple of hours out of the house this afternoon when my lovely aide à domicile arrives. 
The sun is shining and the trees are a beautiful melange of green, yellow,red and brown. I can think of worst places to be right now. 
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Enjoy your free time… 
… I think I heard the grue overhead somewhere last night… and this morning’s freshness makes me think the timing is about right…
brilliant sunshine, all windows open and all is well with the world (well, my bit of it).
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