NO.
I am still being dictated to by 27% of voters, and am one of the 38% who didn’t get a voice yet are amongst the most affected
call it what you like massaging or otherwise- Fact are facts.
as to clear rules try telling that to those who could register, did register and are still waiting for documents to arrive.
The only distortion that exists is those who voted out based on the spurious lies of the lies of Farage etc.
I am puzzled as to why you think your view should prevail over that of the electorate.
Whatever the weaknesses of the “system” they have been shared by every election in living memory none of which has had the turnout of the referendum.
Would you rather be “dictated to” by Mr Putin or someone like him. I certainly would not. I have lived under many Governments of various “colours” over the past 74 years. Some I liked, others I didn’t. At least for the past 50 odd years I have had the opportunity to influence a change. Dictators do not allow this.
If you were so keen to vote in UK elections why did you not register long ago - I did. Those who dissociated themselves form the UK electoral process presumably did so for good reasons. Too late to whinge about the results of vote in which they were unable to participate as a result of their failure to maintain their right.
The 15 year rule is another matter entirely and I agree that it a regrettable limitation of rights which should have been corrected before the referendum vote. However since the uptake of voting rights by those eligible to do so was pathetically small (about 5% I believe) in spite of quite vigorous campaigning by a number of groups to encourage it there is little evidence that had it been rescinded before the vote it would have made any difference to the outcome. It must be right that the effect of staying in or leaving the EU will be much greater for those who live in the UK than for those who do not so the arguments for non-residents to vote are questionable. My opposition to the 15 year rule is based solely on consistency and natural justice and not on a belief in the right of non-residents to have the vote at all.
I accept that there were many deficiencies with the campaigns of both sides which is regrettable. However the electorate expressed its view very clearly.
It is an enduring problem of democracy that a substantial number of those who voted will be unhappy with the outcome. It is an imperfect system but the alternatives are undoubtedly worse.
You are correct in stating facts are facts and the relevant fact is the outcome of the referendum.
For the record as I live for 3/4 of the year in EU countries I will be at least as much affected as you. The present adverse movement of the £ is an irritation but will pass. Few if any of the doom predictions have so far appeared and I doubt if many will ever do so. I have no anxieties about my future in the two countries outside UK in which I live for most of the time. Nor should you.
The decision has created an opportunity which would not have been available has UK stayed in the EU which would have moved inexorably towards a federal European government with increasing erosion of the power and influence of national governments to influence its policies…
Europe and the Euro is undoubtedly in deep trouble and shows no sign of emerging from it.
The panic reaction that “UK should be punished for leaving” will pass as the remaining members realise how much damage could be done to their own economies if they persist with it.
UK is not leaving Europe but it will leave the EU and be better for it.
Scare mongering did not persuade the electorate before the referendum and it will not trouble it much now.
“Calm down dear”. It will be all right in the end.
Im puzzled why you think 27% trumps the rights of we 38%
enjoy living on the island once more. only this time you in throwing the tantrum you’ve effectivly taken a crap on your neighbours doorstep and expect them to then supply the toilet paper.
So don’t be surprised when they tell you to pull up your pants and get your own, whilst throwing the resultant pile of smelly mess back at you.
Because the 38% chose not to participate.
As for the rest of your response I regret its rather abusive nature but it really doesn’t merit a reply.
I will close this exchange as its not contributing anything useful…
Thank you James for emphasising this point although it does not appear to have been noted by all. I will withdraw from this post to avoid provoking more offense.
Please don’t be rude @Tim_Neal it’s not how we operate here.
http://www.survivefrance.com/t/argumentum-ad-hominem-survive-france-guidelines/11538
rude?
rude is quite different to putting someone in the picture when they simply refuse to read what is written.
especially after being very polite in putting a clear position across.
Context to the entire conversation- Please , just so you don’t accuse me of being rude.
maybe the definition needs modifying.
I find this comment of yours rude. Stop using such inflammatory language here please.
In response to Tim Neal’s deleted post part of which I copy below
_Tim_Neal Tim_Neal _
October 11
NO Micheal you missed the entire point
38% who were denied a vote, despite being affected due to rules making us uneligable to vote.
IE We hold British Passports, live outside of the UK and didn’t get to vote as we were denied registration due the 15 year rule.
Which now they are talking about changing.
So those of us who live, work and have lives outside of the UK but within the EU & greater world are being dictated to by your valued 27%ers.
My response is as follows:
The estimated number of UK expats denied the vote by the 15 year rule is 700,000. If the same proportion registered as those who are eligible to vote (about 5% and if they had all voted to remain it would still have had no effect on the result. Even if they had all registered and voted to remain it would not have changed the result.
To be frank, you can hardly expect to start or encourage a thread on such an inflammatory subject without getting inflammatory contributions. Both sides are more-or-less balanced in their positions and there isn’t anything to choose who is more right or wrong. Time only will tell and more excuses will no doubt then appear. Is this a grown-up forum or not?
As someone who decided not to vote as it had no outcome on my life, making me realise I had no right to decide, I now believe the UK should invoke, let it run and see what happens, I believe that leave lied, and remain exaggerated, but the country is run by the red tops and the Murdoch empire and the uk now needs to lead the world in showing why democracy is the worst form of goverment
I agree with joe scott (I didn’t vote either, because I don’t feel that the issues that are going to affect people living in the UK are the same issues that are going to affect me living in France) - but I think that ‘democracy is the worst form of government’ is too sweeping a statement. It depends on the democrats. Unfortunately when the democrats have been brought up on a diet of tabloid press and have received an education that makes taking meeja studies and going on to work in the meeja seem aspirational, but doesn’t give them any intellectual rigour or teach them to think analytically and critically and have a mind of their own, it’s a lost cause. I actually believe that if Frexit were ever to be seriously mooted, a significant proportion of French voters would be clear-thinking enough not to fall for everything they’re told hook, line and sinker. Politicians would be challenged to justify their claims and face up to the issues that people feel are important.
It’s a very grown up forum @Rhys_Williams - hence the reason we don’t tolerate rudeness. If posters want to get personal rather than engage in a constructive debate, there are plenty of other places they can go and do that!
I certainly wasn’t advocating rudeness, just thinking that we all reap what we sow!
We do indeed. The Marmite wars being a prime example! X
I know of a couple part brit part NZ who have bought a house in charente and renovated it. They have not burnt their bridges and own a place too in NZ. Six months here and 6 months there. But it is visa based for the NZ partner. Shortly the same for him.
Houses start from 15000 €. They are cheap. I can recommend some agents in charente and haute Vienne . Centre of France
Well said, Diana…!
well it begins, a friend has just phoned to get her S1 refusal to start the process of joining the health service here in France only to be told, that the UK is no longer issuing either S1 or S1 refusals for early retires moving to France.
I’ve just replied to someone else who mentioned the same thing. It works the opposite way round now so that you supply some info to CPAM and they then send that info to HMRC or DWP to confirm that you’re not entitled to an S1. It doesn’t affect your ability to join PUMA. Someone on here will know far more than me so I’m sure you’ll get a more in depth reply.
We too are UK born and Aussie raised/worked and have the two passports. Here thanks to our UK ones. But we have only been here a year. We are wondering what hoops we will have to jump through in order to stay. Sigh, I am so cross with UK.