Well said @Tim_Neal Totally agree with what you said.
Can’t believe how some peeps who live in an EU country have voted to leave this Union. It’s like Turkeys voting for Christmas 
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Thanks for the links, James.
It shows how since the vote, it’s unleashed the worst under the surface traits, our homeland has.
It goes totally against everything in principle, the EU Union is trying to stop.
In my opinion, it was not too difficult to see what the britexiters have released. All of us should be ashamed of what the current Gov is doing and what terrible things it’s unleashing, for short-term polictical gain.
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Britain is an EU country, at least for a while but sure was at the time of the referendum. The turkey trying to bring Cbristmas forward is Juncker and Co.
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did I say you didn’t?
NO
but clearly, your response demonstrates a severe lack of basic reading and writing comprehension.
and your position re leave vote is now becoming clear- and the stereotype claims by the many who voted remain or indicated happy with the status quo is being proven as correct.
Enjoy being an immigrant in a foreign country and a practicing xenophobe in the same lifetime.
Again- a position and belief that utterly beggars belief. A bit like a Turkey voting for Christmas.
Which I understand in the 3rd realm of the UK is now cancelled seeing as Santa in a foreigner and won’t be able to work there 
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yes , Lis and I are still making plans to move. we are just being a little less boots and all now.
We have been taking night school with Alliance Francaise to learn the language, studying up on the different business structures etc.
Im 30 years back ground in the hotel and restaurant trade, Lis is an Accountant. So we’re thinking of buying freehold a B&B or Gite complex.
Hi Ian,
Agree about due dil with Greece and general enlargement of the EU. But was it also the UK Gov position to positively support the EU to bring in more members? I could be wrong but I believe that was the case. I think the thought was a larger the EU the less likely ( by UK Gov thinking) it will go along a more centralised federal route.
Hello Ian,
Still believe the ‘Turkey voting for Xmas’ is not the EU but us (via the peeps who voted out). It was the UK Gov idea for Referendum. Why should the EU have to change their position? We will as ordinary citizens, lose out because of leaving the Union due to various economic and social issues.
We need them (EU) more than they need us. Low to medium jobs will be lost. We are a small nation and with all the postive will in the world, can’t go back to the days we can survive as well outside our trading block.
Martin, as my comments stated the lack of vision by the EU member states when Cameron did his tour to get changes (which I believe would benefit most member states) and found that promised support came to nothing. The UK citizens are not stupid and the writing was clearly on the wall from that point onward. The politicians in Germany and Italy amongst others are under enormous pressure to tow the party (Juncker) line and from my many contacts across Europe the longevity of the EU is anything but certain.
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Stretching the topic a bit sideways, two articles on BBC News site today, one suggesting UK Citizens living abroad may be granted “Votes for Life” rather than for 15 years, the other describing how a group called “Fair Deal for Expats” is suing Juncker for discrimination resulting from his refusal to allow officers to discuss the situation of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU until Article 50 is invoked.
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… UK has more citizens living overseas than any other European nation – 4.9 million British people live in other countries around the world.
It is by no means certain that Theresa May and her Brexiteers will be able to get away with triggering Article 50 without a mandate from Parliament covering when, how and with what conditions plus ongoing supervision by Parliament.
The first stage in ensuring that the UK’s Parliament is Sovereign and not an unelected executive pandering to Tory/UKIP policies is the hearing in the High Court that starts this coming Thursday.
One of the groups involved in challenging the Government is the People’s Challenge, a group of UK Citizens including myself and my son who have lived in France since 1998.
We are funding our challenge through the Crowd Justice crowdfunding site.
We have raised £127,285 of the £150,000 needed to make sure we are fully represented at the 3 days of hearings (13th,17th & 18th).
You can read about our challenge including updates on the details of both our arguments and the Government’s response on our Crowd Justice page.
Anything you can do to promote and support our case and our fund raising will be very much appreciated by the 6 of us as well as all those other UK Citizens desperately concerned about the course the current pseudo UKIP UK Government.
Many thanks from Myself, Rob PIgney, Chris Formaggia, Fergal McFerran Paul Cartwright & Tahmid Chowdhury.
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We have company and state pensions, paid into UK bank, and transfer from time to time to the French account to pay French taxes and bills. I think the healthcare questions are very important, which was why I wrote to Gisella Stuart as soon as I heard she had been appointed.
I think you’re right, Charlotte, - we may all be able to stay on carte de séjours but anyone who isn’t working here in France may well have very large bills to pay for health care if May goes for a hard Brexit
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Good points, Ian.
I agree the lack of version from the EU senior team and overall organisation and the good communication which the EU does, did not help the negative vote for the referendum.
I hope going forward, without the UK dragging the EU back, they (EU) will be more transparent and ambitious with the project. Also having to engage it’s citizens in the process.
the remain campaign did indeed counter the £350 million campaign and many other Brexit lies and mistruths, however with many Brexiteers using the Daily Mail and the Sun et al as their source of information, and deciding to believe what they want to believe, it was impossible to counter the lies. I tried, lord knows I tried, but got howled down, called a traitor, told that I didn’t know what I was talking about, by local people who regard folks from the nearest town 15 miles away as ‘outsiders’. I have lived all over the world, including mostly Europe, family live and lived in Spain and France, son married to an Italian woman, so I figure my experiences might have some influence, but no, they “want our sovereignty back” (whatever that means, and so far, when challenged, none of them is able to explain) and hark back to the days of the Empire, when the UK was a world leader. Apparently back in the 19th century, Britain was able to stand alone, and so it will be able to again. One cannot argue against mass stupidity, when fanned by the flames of a biased media and the general sabre rattling flag waving hysteria that it all invoked.
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Pam at al
I believe that the UK made the wrong choice, but I also believe the Remain campaign was badly run. Whether it would have made a difference I do not know but in any event it is irrelevant now.
Incidentally, the existing scheme for health is a bi-lateral agreement between the UK and France and lies outside the remit if the EU. In principle it should not change.
Don’t forget, all our medical costs incurred in France are actually paid by the UK Gov’t and presumably vice versa.
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A very partial view of the figures Tim and a fine example of massaging the facts to suit the argument.
The usual interpretation would be to assume that those who did not vote would have done so in the same proportions as those who did. That is the basis of most democratic decisions.
Using your interpretation it might be argued that those who did not vote would have either had no interest in the result in which case they should correctly be ignored or that they were content to accept the decision of those who did.
Alternatively using the same distorted logic as you did the abstainers could be added to those who voted to leave in which case the majority would have been rather greater that you argue for the “other view”.
The rules were clear, the vote was open to all who had registered and the result was clear.
Accept it and move on.
NO.
I am still being dictated to by 27% of voters, and am one of the 38% who didn’t get a voice yet are amongst the most affected
call it what you like massaging or otherwise- Fact are facts.
as to clear rules try telling that to those who could register, did register and are still waiting for documents to arrive.
The only distortion that exists is those who voted out based on the spurious lies of the lies of Farage etc.
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I am puzzled as to why you think your view should prevail over that of the electorate.
Whatever the weaknesses of the “system” they have been shared by every election in living memory none of which has had the turnout of the referendum.
Would you rather be “dictated to” by Mr Putin or someone like him. I certainly would not. I have lived under many Governments of various “colours” over the past 74 years. Some I liked, others I didn’t. At least for the past 50 odd years I have had the opportunity to influence a change. Dictators do not allow this.
If you were so keen to vote in UK elections why did you not register long ago - I did. Those who dissociated themselves form the UK electoral process presumably did so for good reasons. Too late to whinge about the results of vote in which they were unable to participate as a result of their failure to maintain their right.
The 15 year rule is another matter entirely and I agree that it a regrettable limitation of rights which should have been corrected before the referendum vote. However since the uptake of voting rights by those eligible to do so was pathetically small (about 5% I believe) in spite of quite vigorous campaigning by a number of groups to encourage it there is little evidence that had it been rescinded before the vote it would have made any difference to the outcome. It must be right that the effect of staying in or leaving the EU will be much greater for those who live in the UK than for those who do not so the arguments for non-residents to vote are questionable. My opposition to the 15 year rule is based solely on consistency and natural justice and not on a belief in the right of non-residents to have the vote at all.
I accept that there were many deficiencies with the campaigns of both sides which is regrettable. However the electorate expressed its view very clearly.
It is an enduring problem of democracy that a substantial number of those who voted will be unhappy with the outcome. It is an imperfect system but the alternatives are undoubtedly worse.
You are correct in stating facts are facts and the relevant fact is the outcome of the referendum.
For the record as I live for 3/4 of the year in EU countries I will be at least as much affected as you. The present adverse movement of the £ is an irritation but will pass. Few if any of the doom predictions have so far appeared and I doubt if many will ever do so. I have no anxieties about my future in the two countries outside UK in which I live for most of the time. Nor should you.
The decision has created an opportunity which would not have been available has UK stayed in the EU which would have moved inexorably towards a federal European government with increasing erosion of the power and influence of national governments to influence its policies…
Europe and the Euro is undoubtedly in deep trouble and shows no sign of emerging from it.
The panic reaction that “UK should be punished for leaving” will pass as the remaining members realise how much damage could be done to their own economies if they persist with it.
UK is not leaving Europe but it will leave the EU and be better for it.
Scare mongering did not persuade the electorate before the referendum and it will not trouble it much now.
“Calm down dear”. It will be all right in the end.
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