They were probably not 'white' either way, so just to be careful Mr Desmond told his xenophobic rag to tweak it.
Mark, I find you are choosing words then dressing them up with your 'but not me' cloak of innocence and impartiality. Your comments in total only build up more and more toward anything but treating people in need with humanity. In fact, when it comes to it the naivety of suggesting a selection process before entering the EU defies all logic when trafficking migrants is such a large part of the equation. So, another question. Should the migrants who believe they are going to a better life be punished for investing all they have or having what are for them enormous debts? Or should it be the traffickers who tell them they will find that better life then take their money? Given how difficult it is to catch the latter and how quickly those caught are replaced do you think that would have any effect? Whatever the solution you might suggest, it would never help people who in one sense of another are in need. Even those who are not refugees are seeking something to improve their lives and studies with them actually do show that very few actually ever wished to leave their home, family, country, culture and all else they know but necessity drives them to it. How do we end that? At present most aid and development programmes are getting less and less money as governments prefer to invest in other things. So no solution there. Perhaps you know?
What is happening in Calais should never have happened. But it has. Looking at what the truckers and residents are facing is deplorable. There is definitely a thug element in the camp.
What should a Western society do in these circumstances? Whatever we do, it will not succeed. The camp will develop into a mini state. A culture of anarchy and lawlessness. The middles eastern (tribal) ideology is so alien to our own culture that it will fail. Even those trying to help will not succeed. The only way forward is some kind of revolution. The acceptance that our culture has failed. That capitalism has failed. But regardless of all these sentiments The problem will continue to exist. The French Government has failed in its approach and caused conflict instead of an acceptance of the migrants plight. In so doing as caused more alienation. I do not no what the solution is but it can not be allowed to continue as it is. The truth is that its the beginning of the end of our society as we in this generation knew it. Sadly.
Mark I made my suggestions to Lisa a few pages back. Still I guess your scrutiny at borders is a much more radical one! Woweeee…what a great idea - just like when we pop over to Florida for our hols in Disney you mean? Job done!
Brian, I think that you have latched on to an innocent comment & twisted it round to suit yourself. I simply stated "I do admit to not knowing what kind of benefits system Romania has, though." because a number of migrants come from countries which do not have the resources to provide much of a benefits or health system. If parts of the population of such a country fall on hard times they are going to be lured to other countries whose benefit system is deemed to be more generous. It's not rocket science, it's human nature! My reference to Romania was merely to give an example of such a poor country. Merely a fact, not at all prejudice unless you are determined to read it so. I did not say that better benefits is the sole reason for migrants to make their way to the UK either. reasons are many & varied & depend on individual circumstance. Sometimes, Brian, for an intellectual you can really be a poor judge of character!
My second reply to you started off by saying "I know that most people are honest but..." which blatantly does NOT tar all by the same brush! I also do not typify people by nationality, but as you highlighted the Romania reference I quoted an article written in the "Spectator" - one of the organs you yourself read. Those are not my words. It is not me being nasty. Don't shoot the messenger.
@Simon, What would your solution be? Just because my view does not mirror yours does not make them any less valid.
Genuine migrants need help but all migrants coming into the EU must be subject to scrutiny before being let into a country just as we are when we arrive in a non EU one.
A less generous person might feel that you two are implying that I am some kind of nationalist but of course I'm sure that you are not:-)
I agree completely Véronique - we are so fortunate that we have had choices in life and not had to make drastic and dangerous life changes merely to survive or protect our children.
Even as tax-paying non-French residents in France we are enjoying many benefits that have historically been built up by the French working population, who are taxed more heavily to pay for these better services and infrastructure than we have been in the UK, and we should consider ourselves very privileged that we have been able to enjoy these facilities without having had to escape the horror that many are now running from. It has been a lifestyle choice for us.
I am not naïve enough to think that there aren't some very dangerous people in the masses that are now trying to access EU countries and of course this is worrying and needs to be monitored, but I think we should be careful not to judge harshly these people who are evidently desperately in need of some compassion and aide
Simon, I have seen this type of thread on a German network earlier today. Somebody suggested camps. The response was that the people are already in camps and what kind of camps should they be shunted on to. I know what the person who asked that question was angling for and I am certain there are people thinking it but not saying it. I think we are very close to when a few people, not in this thread though, will say that. I find that a reflection of how life has changed from the compassion still felt in the wake of WW2 half a century ago when I was a teenager and how so much seems to be reviving a kind of world that compassion followed, namely a world that for a large part lacked any compassion.
Well said Brian! I'd just like to know (sort of) from Mark what his proposed solution to the current migrant / refugee crisis would be?
So, the vast majority of Romanians who are not criminals are tarred by the same brush. Anyway, you implied they are benefit seekers then threw this in to justify blanket condemnation of people from one nation. You are digging yourself into a hole by piling prejudice on prejudice although you throw in that you are not occasionally. It is your right to be prejudiced, but to effectively typify people as bad by nationality is very nasty Mark. I think you are lucky that there are not a few people who easily take offence and really mix it with you. Harbour your prejudices as you will, but please stop trying to convince people that X and Y are inherently bad.
It seems they changed their mind - the shock value headline "attacked by refugees" quickly changes to "attacked by migrants". I wonder how they identified which it was.
I agree but I would say that I think any adverse comments made have concerned ineligible migrants, not refugees. I know I'm saying it again but it is such a fundamental distinction. Refugees need help. There is absolutely no doubt about that and I too am perfectly happy for part of my taxes to be used to support them. However, many of those in Calais are irregular migrants simply waiting for an opportune moment to get into the UK. I think they are the ones more likely to be causing disturbances at the tunnel, outbursts against the authorities probably due to frustration. I don't know. But I do know there's a difference.
Sorry, Brian, I am affected by what I read! I know that most people are honest but let us not overlook statistics which speak for themselves.
This was in the Spectator (referring to nationalities living in the UK).
"There were a total of 2,437 arrests of people from Germany across those four years. The number for Romanians was 27,725. This latter figure included 1,370 suspected burglaries and 142 alleged rapes, by the way, just to flesh the stats out with a bit of detail.
So now you really do ‘know the difference’. And according to the UK census of 2011, there are more German nationals living in London than there are Romanians: 44,976 as against 42,151. So your new next-door neighbour is much, much, much more likely to be criminally inclined if he is Romanian than if he is German.
There are caveats, of course. I suppose it might be that it was just one Romanian man, an incredibly active chap, arrested 27,725 times. Or it may be that the police hate Romanians and are more likely to arrest them than they are Germans. But still, the figures would seem to suggest to any normal, functioning human being — not James O’Brien, maybe, but to most of the rest of us — that the Romanians punch hugely above their weight in the old crime stats. They out-crim even the Jamaicans and the Somalians, which is an incredible achievement,"
Yes, I harbour particular prejudices - I hate crime!
Innocent refugees DON'T DO THIS !!!!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/633689/Calais-migrant-crisis-refugees-attack-British-school-coach-rocks-violence
thugs !!!!
Bravo Véronique - really excellent! 
I think many economic migrants are like any of you non-French people here on this site who live in France - you have changed country and want to work and pay into the system while putting your children through school, using health and other services etc. A normal life, in other words. You chose this country for probably fairly complex reasons based on all sorts of subjective things.
Some of you make a go of it in spite of pretty poor language skills, some don't and end up living on benefits. Some work for a minimal amount and get benefits to top-up their income via child benefit etc. That's normal, it is how the system works. I'm a French person and I'm not bothered by that. And if the worst comes to the worst and you decide that life in France isn't for you, you can generally go 'home'.
It is similar up to a point for migrants from Syria etc, but only up to a point - because the big difference is that Britain and New Zealand, the Netherlands or Germany aren't being bombed to bits by different parties right now, their respective governments (though they may not have your total approval) aren't killing or torturing the population or starving them to death... you may have come here legally by accident of birth or citizenship but that isn't a luxury many of these people have.
The judgmental comments made about many migrants make me rather wonder how many of you have ever found yourselves in a situation where your daily life is wondering if you'll have electricity or water, find any available food, wonder if you're being informed on & taken away & 'disappeared', face the real threat of being shot at, bombed, burnt to death etc etc and the only positive-looking choice you have is paying a fortune to a smuggler and then risking your life on sea & then land to live in more fear & squalor on the murky margins of some of the world's richest & safest countries, making do any way you can in the constant hope that tomorrow may yield something better for you and for your family, if you have any left.
So speaking entirely personally as a tax-paying French person in France, if my taxes are subsidising anyone from abroad I think the priority should be subsidising the ones who really really need it and don't have a choice; and they aren't in my view the ones coming from within the EU or other parts of the first world.
Yes doing everything by the book is the only way.
Here is a factual update on the Dunkerque situation. The go ahead has finally been given for the creation of a humanitarian camp for “Entre 2 500 et 3 000 personnes en attente d’un passage pour la Grande-Bretagne”.
En savoir plus sur http://www.lemonde.fr/immigration-et-diversite/article/2016/01/11/un-camp-humanitaire-a-grande-synthe-dans-quatre-semaines_4845164_1654200.html#Ic2Tr7BV1DmqKoi1.99
This article, in Le Monde, clearly states that these 2500 to 3000 people are waiting for passage to Great Britain because they have already paid a trafficker for passage to cross the maritime border, “rémunéré un passeur pour les aider à franchir la frontière maritime. »
En savoir plus sur http://www.lemonde.fr/immigration-et-diversite/article/2016/01/11/un-camp-humanitaire-a-grande-synthe-dans-quatre-semaines_4845164_1654200.html#Ic2Tr7BV1DmqKoi1.99
Damien Carême, the mayor of Grande Synthe, has teamed up with Medecins sans Frontieres to invest between 1.5 and 2 millions Euros in creating this new facility. Please see http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/nord-pas-de-calais/grande-synthe-un-nouveau-camp-de-migrants-amenage-dans-un-mois-901979.html for the original article in French.
The hopeful population of this camp is the hordes of people aimlessly milling around the Calais area trying desperately to get over the channel, who in Carole’s video, were keen to disrupt traffic. Unlike schemes that we know of personally in South Germany, no effort will be made to integrate these people into small French communities. Although we have been in France for seven years now, we are not home owners here. We are told by our French friends that houses are just not selling and year on year the population decreases. There is no shortage of empty housing here. The struggling economies of Calais and Dunkerque rely heavily on tourism, which has already been very hard hit.
A very basic one in Romania, but then they are in the EU and enjoy the same freedom of movement as you. So, by implying something, without saying, you harbour particular prejudices. My ophthalmist in Romanian, perhaps she came to look at eyes here to escape the lack of benefits but I think it was to practice a profession.
In the most basic definition of migration, albeit it was written by an American Everett S. Lee, to move along the corridor in an apartment block is a migratory move. Whoever, moves within a country is migrating, to move from one country to another is international migration. But then I doubt you really want to go down the road of Ravenstein, Stouffer, Zipf, Lee and all the rest of the people who defined different economic and social detailed definition.
I agree with Barbara's points and would add one - that in settling in mainland Europe we've done so (hopefully) legally and followed the necessary procedures.
I seem to remember that such a facility was purpose built a few years ago in the midlands but was deliberately burned down by its occupants - such was their gratitude!