Can I respond to that simply by saying ‘swings and roundabouts ‘
Of course, sounds like a good summary.
PS I’ve read your taxpert link also, seems clear to me on the ‘pension entitled v paid’ debate (if the site is accurate - seems professional, lists the legal references).
If you request UK pension and they pass you over to Carsat and you don’t t follow that up could that be considered social security fraud? Not sure I’d want to risk it as coordination is getting tighter.
The fix: If CARSAT contacts you as a result of this process, respond explicitly stating that you do not wish to liquidate your French pension and wish to defer. This is your legal right under Article L351-1
More broadly, the linked article gives some quite interesting numbers on unclaimed (French) pensions. Around 1/4 to a 1/3 of pension entitlememt is unclaimed (or unliquidated, to use their terminolgy), or around 2% of the total pot. That’s not just Brits of course, that’s everyone who has a French pension entitlement through working in France. Reasons for not claiming are obviously varied but in there is ‘couldn’t be bothered’! That is, too much hassle for €20 a month (or whatever)
Apologies, last word. I really don’t want to overload this thread but the linked article really is a fascinating read. This little snippet, that many are probably aware of, is worth reiterating…
S1 holders retain the right to return to the UK for elective NHS treatment. Without an S1, that right is gone.
That might be an important factor for some in deciding which option to take.
Agreed. Thank you for posting it.
I’m several years away being able to apply for an S1 but if subsequently asked whether I have ever worked in France, the answer would be “yes, but…”
Like many hundreds of thousands of employees over the years, I was seconded to France. Under EU social security rules you are (normally) only liable to one country’s social security charges..My employer and I chose that I (and they) should remain liable to Class 1 National insurance throughout my entire secondment. I was paid by France, from the French payroll but no French social security contributions were due, as I possessed what is now an EEA A1 form to exempt me from French contributions. I have zero legal entitlement to a French pension. My UK contributions record correctly shows the relevant UK tax years as fully qualifying for my UK state pension.
Might is right! In the case of a UK S1 what elective surgery would you return for?
But overall article is v helpful and should be pinned somehow.
I deferred mine by a year and gained an extra €100/month more
Me personally, hopefully none! I don’t want to be having surgery in France or the UK! In the event, I personally would have no qualms with the French system, but then my French is passable and I’m less phazed than some.
Life has a habit of throwing us curve balls and I know there are Brits around that, despite the good reputation of the French health system, would prefer to go back to the UK in the event. They maybe feel more at ease with that thought? I make no judgement, I get where they’re coming from. Hence the italics.
“The entire European and bilateral social security coordination framework hinges on which state is actually paying a pension, not which state you might be “entitled” to claim one from.”
The above would certainly seem to chime with a friend’s recent practical experience. They worked for a short period of employment in France in the early 80s. After which they returned to the UK and worked there for years. They eventually retired to France and claimed their (tiny) French pension and the UK pension.
They’ve been refused an S1 from the UK on the ground that they are already in receipt of a French pension.
Had they never claimed it, it might have been a different matter.
I realise this contradicts Roger Lapin’s experience where, despite being in receipt of a French pension, he was able to get an S1 from the Irish.
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Don’t holder of an Art 50 Warp card also have the same entitlement automatically, regardless of an S1 ? I thought that was part of the Withdrawal Agreement ?
Yes, I think that’s another factor to keep in mind when making your choice.
Not just what your French pension might be worth now but what it might be next year, or the year after, by deferring. One might not take an S1 (despite being entitled) and simply wait a period of time before claiming your French pension - which has increased in that time. Obviously peoples circumstances are different so the decision is very much personalised - one size doesn’t fit all. Time for the spreadsheets.
When I looked at my wife’s French pension entitlement some months back (on Carsat?? - and, no, I didn’t click ‘take it’!!) I was shocked at the gains to be made by simply waiting. Frankly, it didn’t make sense to me. That same pot she’d built up was worth next to nothing today but apparently significantly more in but a few years. And I mean significantly - it was a real ‘woh, no way!’ moment where I thought it MUST be wrong. I simply did not understand it nor the calculations that got it there. So, yes, definitely worth looking at before deciding on the ‘S1 or French pension?’ question.
Same for UK pensions.
I think the UK pension goes up 6% - I did maths and thought it not worth it.
Also, the ‘increased’ amount itself does not attract an increase each year by ‘triple lock’, but some smaller percentage, I can’t remember what.
When I was told what my French pension would be, after only 3 years working here, they said if I did not take it for another year it would be a bit more. When the time came it had doubled. 
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Anybody can state the problems, successful people are those that come up with the solutions. That’s just true Jane. In corporations or anywhere else. It’s a “can do” philosophy, and much more fun 
And successful bosses/managers are those that help teams do that not spout meaningless claptrap.
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Interestingly, the FT has an article today about corporate BS.
The author quotes a researcher at Cornell who thinks people who don’t buy into corporate BS have better analytical skills and are better decision makers.
You are mixing up two things here Jane, management and people that come up with solutions. I was commenting on people in the team that only state the problems are not of great value in moving things forward.
You are right that manager’s job is to set direction and then facilitate the team in achieving the aims of the team, and that should be done in the clearest and most concise way. I have never been an advocate of buzz words of corporate jargon, and I haven’t used it on here. I think I may err on the side of plain. speaking, if anything. 
That said, bullshit speak has reached unbelievable levels over the last ten to fifteen years. A look at Linkdin posts can provide much amusement. Or I love the annual Apple announcement meetings (and Apple is no worse than any other US corporation, but it’s the only announcements I watch) where executive after executive tries to out do one another about how excited they are, nearly to the level of spontaneously combusting, about the modest changes to their product. Everything is just so OTT now that it’s difficult to spot real innovations.
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