Ministers demanding the impossible is still alive and well, at least it was until my husband retired a few years ago. Why they bother to hire consultants and never listen to them I find ridiculous.
Hi Carol, sad though isn't it?
Funny I was having a word with his Boss the other day............................. (top that!)
Hi Carol, Funnily enough I had a lot of respect for him as although I couldn't agree with a lot of what he said, both he and Michael Foote were also seemingly 'honest according to their lights'.
I noted that Brian mentioned Glenys Kinnock in an earlier post, and I have to say if any have brought the EC into disrepute it has to have been the Kinnock clan.
Yes, they don't make them like that any more, although I tend to hold the ruin of 'Punch Magazine' (my favorite ever magazine) against Foote!
That is not untrue Norman......my father in law hated him, but that was only fair as he was a true blue tory. I loved him, though worked for his brother at the BBC who I didnt like at all. I enjoy his personality and his ability to argue his case based on his ability with language, rather than being shouty or rude. One of his best quotes revolves around his life time abstinence of alcohol, he is an avid tea drinker and said not so long ago, he was saving alcohol for his old age...he was well past his sell by date when he made this comment. I enjoyed watching him and Edward Heath on Question Time, always polite to eachother, often funny, totally opposed but with good grace. They dont make them like that anymore.
You are not wrong Norman....on occasions when I see on TV rioting in the streets; people baying for blood who want to tear people limb from limb as punishment for a crime...its clear, we are not so civilised as we like to think and the last thing we should wish for, is power in the hands of the people...so why expect our MPs to be so different?
Good piece Chris.....I too was a union man (except of course, Im a woman!) my dad was a union organiser, later so was my brother. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist was my bible. My first job entailed working for what was then called a Personnel Manager, in a factory. He was an alcoholic and got carried out of the building one day by ambulance men, never to return. I was 17 and the owners thought I would do fine running the factory (which made metal parts) on my own....this was in 1971 and within weeks, a three day week had been introduced. It was a terrible time for everyone, the country was in an awful mess. The years that followed showed a Britain in terrible trouble, and the unions, Scargill specifically, were often megalomaniacs intent on playing God. When Thatcher got in I was crushed, I was a dyed in the wool Socialist and brought up working for the local Labour party. Maybe its age, maybe its experience, but having lived through the Thatcher years, when she left power, she left a stronger Britain behind her. Harold Wilson closed far more mines than Thatcher; yes she taught avarice, but many working people who would never have dreamed of owning their own houses, lived the dream and bought their council properties (not something I ever agreed with, but it changed many lives for the better). And lets not forget, finally it was the Tories themselves that pulled out the daggers and got rid of her....but she didnt leave behind a country up to its ears in debt facing austerity for years to come....I believe it was a Socialist government that was in power when that occurred. All the kids of 20 or 30 who want to dance on her grave....who never even lived under Thatcher, and who probably havent bothered to take the time to read about her 3 returns to Downing Street (lets face it, the majority of the country were happy with her and voting as such) are fools and just want the usual punchup and opportunity to riot and wreck some peoples property. Times like this I am not proud to be British.
I’m a union man - and sympathetic with the sentiments of the 1973 Strawbs hit! Still am! But in the late 70’s I tore up my card and moved to Europe. My next full time job in the UK was with “Today” - the first non-union newspaper. I covered Wapping, was beaten up by NGA thugs and left the UK for good. I’d covered the coal strikes as a stringer for independent, non-UK based publications. The unions had become law unto themselves, with the leaders living the “lifestyles of the rich and famous” they so vocally disdained. Champagne socialists, while the local chapels had been taken over by the hard-left. I was called a traitor, and worse. Did I approve of Thatcher’s dismantling of union power? Good question. I also interviewed crew members of the Conquerer. The feeling of shame felt among several of those on board after the torpedoes struck the Belgrano was never fully reported. It wasn’t a popular sentiment at the time. Still isn’t. What I am trying to say, in a convoluted and roundabout way, is we are all blessed with 20-20 hindsight. Those of us old enough to remember, should be old enough to accept an inescapable fact. We were all complicit in one way or another for her actions and her legacy - either by blind support, or by not doing enough to prevent her three election victories. I do not mourn the passing of Thatcher, but see no reason to celebrate it either - because the saddest thing of all, most of us seem to have learned little or nothing from the experience.
Brian,
that really is the issue isn't it? As Mark has stated we get the politicians we deserve - even if we don't vote for them (or worse no-one).
If we all say, as I do, that the vast majority of politicians are in it for what they can get out of it, then what really makes them so different from the rest of us? Aren't we all doing or have done the same in our jobs, careers, whatever? Some for love, some for admiration, some (many) for power, and most for money.
Curiously it's the last one that makes the most sense to me, and second-last - power, the most worrying.
Democracy SHOULD be in the hands of the People? Or should it?
Sometimes I Wonder if we really deserve it.
Carol, He had a pretty circular career didn't he? Started out a Viscount and ended up a Lord?
For me Tony Benn was the best Prime Minister we never had.......
Without real insight, but nonetheless John Smith was really a nice man.
Mark...that is brilliant! I absolutely agree with your sentiments. The UK is all too keen on an opportunity to 'protest' ie....lets grab a free TV or sound system and put through a shop window and steal stuff.....any blinkin opportunity! I would love to see your sentiments on facebook...where I am being assaulted by people I thought were good intelligent people talking about celebrating in the streets that the witch is dead....the witch has been out of power for 23 years....not interfering with anyone...history will see her as a very important part of British history and not just for the miners etc....and as has been mentioned...other labour Prime ministers have put more mines out of service than Thatcher did.
Transport, flowers, cremation are a pittance and even on this scale, what, £50,000 IF you splash out on the flowers?
As much as I dislike her, agree the procession and service should not be disrupted.
Interesting how people will come up with facts & figures to try to put a case.
Her funeral is not going to be paid for by the tax payer, at least, not in full & "The Independent" gives the total cost of the arrangements at £10 million, not £15 million.
"British taxpayers can well “afford” to contribute to the estimated £10 million cost of Baroness Thatcher's funeral, the Foreign Secretary William Hague said this morning, as MPs and peers gathered to debate her legacy." adding
"Her family is meeting an unspecified amount of the expense, thought to cover transport, flowers and the cremation, with the government funding the rest, including security."
I was wondering about security - who is going to try to assasinate her? The policing cost is high, though, due to the no doubt raucous behaviour of the funeral courtege who will probably want to loot Currys & the Phone Store in their grief!
Looking at some of the pictures of the "parties" a large majority seem to be in their mid 20s which makes them politically astute 2 year olds when Thatcher was voted out. Call me cynical but this seems to be an opportunity for yobs with no sense of moral behaviour to prove that all politicians since have been weak & allowed society to descent into anarchy.
Interesting really. When my father died I had to go to London for the funeral, heck knows why really given that I had not spoken to him in life for many years. In fact there were clearly quite a few people who obviously wanted to be convinced he was gone. Somebody booked a piper who was very, very late and we even heard jokes about having bagpipes to use as bellows for the crematorium. So whilst it was a farewell that nobody seemed to make into a lament it was quite appropriate for the occasion. Something similar to Bette Davis's words about Joan Crawford were even used by my brother-in-law to the effect that they had heard about him down below years ago and had almost certainly closed for the day to make sure he wasn't accidentally let in...
I was a BIG John Smith fan. For me, he and Healey were the best PM's we never had
Yes I agree
I won't be singing her praises but at the same time feel no inclination to party my pants off!
I criticise her not only because I disagreed with her policies but also because she had a direct effect on my family life. Dad was with the FO and I witnessed first hand how frustrated he would become because she would stubbornly refuse to listen to her diplomats who were experts in their field and were in many ways far more capable of finding solutions than she was
At the same time I have remarked on the little bit of UK news I get to see that a lot of celebrations involved people who were not born at the time. Maybe their parents suffered but I do wonder if some people are kicking up a storm for pleasure's sake?
I was surprised to hear about the state, sorry ceremonial, funeral not only because of the cost but because the authorities are asking for trouble and will probably get it.
I agree that a discreet, privately funded send off would be much more appropriate