Only you seem to think there is a problem. I was simply giving my personal opinion and experience on the matter and quoting the official documentation. You seem to regularly take disagreement as a personal insult. Life is too short and I’m about to catch a flight.
I don’t think you understand what the D737 Certificate is, it is a list of the categories you have a right to drive, also when your licence was issued and when it expires.
It has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have a medical issue now, if you had one it would be reflected on the D737 had you bothered to declare it in the UK.
It does NOT allow you to drive after you are 70.
Medical conditions in France are YOUR responsibility to declare and if you have one of these serious conditions you will be under the care of a doctor/specialist who will advise as to your capability to drive.
So when you exchange if you have one of these problems you would supply a medical certificate and depending on the nature of the issue you may end up having a medical every, how you can compare that with the DVLA where you just tick a box to say no problems.
If your condition starts after your French licence is issued you are obliged to report it on ANTS.
I brought up a fact and you disputed it. Others have confirmed what I said. It is you who seems to want to drag this out.
You have raised a number of points in relation to which I feel obliged to comment.
When you say that the D737 certificate “is a list of the categories you have a right to drive,” I have to fundamentally disagree. I feel it would be more accurate to say that the D737 gives a list of vehicle categories that a person was, or is, authorised to drive. No-one has a right to drive. A person has a right to such things as life, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion etc. Driving is not a right, but is a privilege subject to a number of conditions to be fulfilled by the individual.
You say that the D737 does not allow a person to drive after they are 70 and I agree with you entirely. I have not suggested otherwise.
When you say that a doctor / specialist will advise as to a person’s capability to drive I think you are being a bit overly hopeful. I am sure that the doctor could, and in certain cases should, give such advise, but it is my experience that the medical folks, especially the senior ones, are usually pre-occupied with the health of the patient and don’t concern themselves too much with the daily activities of the patient unless it is likely to adversely affect recovery.
I feel that I should add that I was not making a comparison between the UK and French systems.
The point that I was commenting on was that a person who reaches 70 in the UK has to make a declaration relating to health in order to renew their UK licence, but that from what you have said previously, that same person does not have to make any such declaration to the DVLA in order to obtain the D737.
I agree with others that the UK self-certification system is a joke, but I find it to be something of an anomaly that no such self certification is needed to obtain the D737.
Because of this anomaly, there may be a person of 70 yrs who, if they were truthful, would not be able to renew their UK licence at 70, but who can still obtain a D737 because they don’t have to make any declaration relating to health in order for it to be issued.
I just happen to think that this is a loophole in the system that should be rectified, and I trust that you now have a better understanding of my views.
I don’t know if @hairbear s argument has any value or not, but Trump became president by following the strategy you disparage. No matter how wrong he was, he won. Makes one think
You are conflating a right conferred by the State - in this case, the right to drive - with the human rights to various freedoms which certain States assert exist. There is no practical difference between a State authorising someone to do something and saying that person has the right to do something. In either case, the authorisation or right can be withdrawn by the State.
Well, I just read the regulations on gov.uk and interpreted them and they seemed to match what actually happened to me. I find David’s constant arguing and veiled suggestions of idiocy quite tiresome so I’ve blocked him. The first and only so far.
I disagree. For me, the difference is that the state has the ability to withdraw a person’s authority to do something but does not have that ability in relation to something that a person has the right to do.
I’m sorry but this is getting tedious now.
The D737 is a list of categories you have a right to drive, categories you have been authorised to drive. It makes no difference if your licence has expired, you can reactivate them by renewing your licence.
Your insistence on a medical is something you have to take up with the authorities yourself, as currently what I have advised is how it is processed here.
You are responsible for your own health, if you shouldn’t be driving don’t drive, if you can’t see, don’t drive.
The D737 is the evidence for France of what categories you are/have been licenced to drive and these categories will be exchanged apart from C1/D1 if you were gifted them by age.
Why on earth you think someone would need to declare to the DVLA they are in good health to get the D737 is beyond me, IT’S NOT A DRIVING LICENCE only evidence of your categories.
And no I don’t understand your point of view because only you are making an issue out of one that doesn’t exist.
I did admire the courage of arguing this topic with you.
or foolhardiness…
Reminds me of Mr. O’Reilly in the Fawlty Towers “The Builders” episode when he says to Sybil “I do like a woman with spirit…”
Yes, you are right, but it is mainly because you seem to be responding to that which you think I must have said, rather than to that which I have actually written.
Sorry, but when you say, “The D737 is a list of categories you have a right to drive, categories you have been authorised to drive.” there is I believe a problem with your use of two different terms, with two different meanings, to describe the same thing.
As I have said previously, I do not believe that anyone has a right to drive anything.
Yes of course, many people are, or have been, authorised to drive vehicles. However, the authorising body has the power to revoke said authority in various circumstances, and this is the essence of the difference between holding an authorisation to do something and having the right to do something such as to freely choose your religion, which is of itself a right that no governing authority can take from you in our constitutionalised and democratic society.
Your last post continues with the words “Your insistence on a medical” and I would like to plainly state that I am not insisting upon anything. How can I insist when I have no authority over the matter.
What I have done is to point out that under the current system as you have described it, a person of 70 years of age wishing to renew their UK driving licence has to make a positive statement regarding their own health in order to do so, but does not have to make any similar statement in order to obtain a D737 certificate. I feel that this is an anomaly that should be corrected.
By the way, please know that I do fully understand that a D737 is not a driving licence so you really don’t need to keep hammering that particular nail.
I do not “think someone would need to declare to the DVLA they are in good health to get the D737”, but I do think that they should be required to do so.
My reasoning is as follows;
To renew a UK licence at age 70 it is required that the applicant positively declares that their state of health is compatible with driving.
For that same person to obtain a D737 no such positive declaration is required.
The person can then use the D737 certificate as a supporting document in their application for a French driving licence where no such positive declaration of driving compatible health is required. All that is needed for the application to succeed is the absence of a negative statement about health.
I acknowledge that many people, perhaps including yourself, may believe that a positive statement is the same as the absence of a statement in the negative, and while on the surface it could be argued that this is indeed the case, when it comes to form filling there is a strong tendency for there to be a different response from many people.
Very often a person will have greater peace of mind in ‘forgetting’ to declare a medical condition, than they would when ticking a box to tell a deliberate lie to say that they are in good health when they know that such is not the case.
Therefore, because of this aspect of human nature, I feel that the system in its current state makes it easier for a person whose health is questionable to obtain a French exchange licence than to renew their UK licence.
In conclusion I would like to say that the issue clearly does indeed exist. You may feel that it is unimportant, and you are certainly entitled to have that opinion, which of course has no lesser or greater value than my own.
I just think that it is something that needs an amendment to the relevant regulations.
Then you’re going to be constantly outraged about this as my information is fact, yours is your opinion.
Campaign to change it if it upsets you this much. If you were so worried you would have already seen it’s been discussed a lot recently in the EU the issue of age related medicals.
I will continue to follow the current rules and help people get their driving licences which I have done almost daily for the last 6 years.
I’m done with this conversation.
I have Diplomatic immunity
Given the present state of the world I find that all-too-easy to believe
Ouch, that stung
Wish I’d had this chart before I got married to a Brit
@Robert_Hodge The French don’t care, and it’s them that issue the French licence.
France currently has no such procedure in place. They’ve requested only as much as they need to, in order to prove all that France needs to know in order to issue a French driving licence. A French person would not currently be asked to provide any proof of health whatsoever. So neither will anyone else until a French person would be asked to
I am frequently coming up against my own Anglo expectations of certain things, not being at all the case in France. This is one where for once the procedure is not imposing extra hassle, and it’s rare TBH.
If certain vested interests in France and the EU get their way, then one day the French might decide on the method they will use to impose health checks on drivers - based on age or otherwise.
If it’s age then as statistics seem to say there is a bigger issue with young drivers than older ones being involved in accidents, then I hope whatever extra checks France will impose will be targeted at more than one age group.