OK, OK, I hold my hands up! ;-)
Andy. I NEVER knock anyone's qualifications as any person who takes the trouble to acquire knowledge deserves to have them acknowledged.
I come from the old school having started my design apprenticeship with G N Haden & sons Ltd in 1961. I left the industry in 2002 when I sold my company & moved to France but believe me I have seen most things during my time in the industry. One of the, for me, great moments was the introduction of 'small bore' central heating with pumps or circulators as they were then known which brought central heating to Joe Public. I ran the D & S (domestic & specials) dept at Hadens for some time where we designed anything from house heating to heavy/light fuel boiler/ burner conversions to steam boiler & pipework systems in laundries to boiler conversions for North Sea Gas. I've been there through most of the innovations including unvented water systems so sort of pride myself I know a bit about building services which is probably the reason I can't keep my beak out of this type of discussion. :-)
I agree Vic, the two norms did develop differently I remember the first Valiant Combi Boiler we came across in the mid eighties and discovering they had been making them since 1967, whilst we were installing cast iron boilers down cellars the weight of a small car only to discover 30 years later we had to get them out again. Standardisation across Europe over the last 30 is partly driven by the merger of companies, you say you have never seen a megaflow here in France but its a safe bet you will find a product under a different name almost identical, all owned by the same pan-European company BDR Thermia. You can knock my qualification If you like, I completed it in 1.5 days in house and never used it, they trained some of the managers and technical staff then found out we couldn't just go out and "pass" installations and sign them off it was the installers who had to be qualified. They trained some of them then abandoned installing unvented cylinders after deciding having to register each one with the local authority was too much trouble. The quickest City and guilds qualification I got was as an Assessor, it took me four hours, more or less copying documents into my own words. Things are not always what they seem.
Dunno wot yer on about Mike! I've been fishing for the last 3 hours sans interweb. In case you're interested, 2 huge Pollock & loads of small stuff for the cats.
I never rub noses in it, I'm better than that!. You never know when it'll be your turn to drop one. Clanger that is ;-0
Vic,
I have just made a grovelling apology - don't rub my nose in it! ;-)
Come on Mike! Just 'cos you can't find 'em doesn't mean they don't exist. By Yorkshire fittings I assume you mean solder ring fittings. Given that most stuff here is brazed or silver soldered that would be a bit unnecessary don't you think? ;-)
I stand corrected! I now see "Raccords bicône sans soudure" in the Bricocash catalog. So I guess they can be used, but I wouldn't trust them upstream from the pressure regulator.......
I have never seen them in Basse Normandie. Nor have I seen "Yorkshire" fittings. Where do you buy compression fittings in France? Is it possible that they are only sold in areas where pressures are lower?
Where did you get that idea from Mike. Compression fittings are readily available. I use 'em with no problems. The threaded fittings are the problem as they are parallel NOT taper threads & need hemp & paste as PTFE is not successful. Regarding the manometer I disagree here also. The idea of the gauge is to set up AND monitor what's happening. Any unusual pressure changes should be investigated & resolved. If it's the gauge, simply change the thing. They cost peanuts in comparison to the damage an over pressure situation could cause.
Right John,
My manometer began to drip after 10 years and I replaced it with a plug. The pressure regulator does not seem to need re-setting during its working life.
I have been browsing the catalogs and find that pressure regulators come in two types - diaphragm and piston. Does anyone have any information about application and reliability?
I would not advise the use of compression fittings in France. They are not sold or used here. I suspect that is because they are not able to cope with the high pressures encountered. The safest option is to source all components in France. There may also be insurance implications if non-standard components are used
Mark once the novelty of the pressure reducer has worn off, I would recommend the gauge is removed and replace with a blanking plug. Gauges do fail and can be the source of leaks.
Andy, the idea of checking the pressure was part of the diagnostic approach, it was made on an assumption that there was or may have been a pressure reducer that had failed and obviously to see what the pressure was. As it now transpires there isn't a PRV then I concur that one should be fitted as France does like to run at pressures that Thames Water don't know about ;-(
Oh, how well I remember the old tank in the loft systems. Used to be galvinzed steel, with a cover made from left over floorboard offcuts. Full of spiders and dead rodents. Dire warnings about drinking from any tap apart from the cold one in the kitchen. Always froze in the winter, regardless of lagging. Good old days!
Didn't say they wouldn't understand them , just that they are different, at least they were worlds apart when I designed systems. The main difference being the 'water wastage' part whereby an expansion vessel is mandatory in England whereas here it can drip to waste via the relief valve which effectively governs the systems maximum final pressure. The construction of the vessel was another thing. Predominately copper in England v Galv. Steel in France. I've not seen a Magaflow or similar here in France. The laws of Physics may be the same but the Norms are different. I remember designing pumped commercial H & CWS systems before the 'unvented' laws came in & you have to realise that the English tank in the loft systems were mandatory to avoid heavy loads on the reservoirs so mains fed unvented systems did not exist 20 odd years ago. I'm not knocking your qualification just pointing out that although 'high pressure' mains water goes in at one end & lower pressure hot water comes out of the other end in technical terms the similarity ends there
On the contrary Vic I don't think UK and French Regulations are that far apart, I have studied both countries gas/water/plumbing regs, the french in less depth than the UK's of course, a qualified french engineer would have no problem understanding UK regs and visa versa. The laws of physics are universal.
Andy . your C&G qualification may be good for Blighty but I'd like to be a fly on the wall if you ever had occasion to discuss the relative merits of the English Unvented regs with a French fonctionaire. ;-)
Thank you Andy, I have decided to fit a pressure reducing valve as it seems the logical thing to do. One from Screwfix is a pressure reducing valve and a gauge and you can set your own pressure. And it probably puts the cat out at night.
Running the risk of being accused of one-upmanship, I have a city and guilds qualification in unvented hot water systems and I think it needs a pressure reducing valve, I may be wrong I often am, but as his system seems to lack one its a safe bet to fit one, you can check the pressure if you want to but I wouldn't bother, its over 6 bar now just fitting one will reduce the pressure well below 6 bar, you will probably find it it comes set at the factory around 3.
Thank you Vic, yes all of your drivel made sense. Concise and erudite.
Nice to see someone here with a sense of humour. Good man & good luck mark. I hope my initial drivel made some sense :-) Do measure yer water pressure !