Before the last Scottish Independence vote I felt a Yes vote would have been to the detriment of the country (Scotland). Now so much has changed I am 50/50 if not leaning towards independance.
That text has been doing the rounds - and is plausible but I havenât seen any confirmation that it is accurate.
1 Like
Total waste of time given the current stance of the Labour Party.
Sounds like the UK are very keen to rejoin the single market having realized that Brexit has been a disaster,good news for everyone,free movement restored and Brexit reversed.
Labour do have a plan it seems⌠its pointed here by Phil Moorhouse
Seems quite logical to me.
Its basically a 5 point plan:
1 Like
Starmer said today -
The Labour leader argued that the big questions over EU membership, notably over the single market, customs union and free movement of people, were âarguments of the pastâ, and could not be revisited.
Happy with that?
They are arguments of the past and of course cannot be revisited whilst the conservative regime is in power.
The UK has left Europe and there has to be a plan. The 5 point plan outlined is realistic but it will take time - probably not until at least after the next but one election can real progress be made if Labour or a non conservative coalition remain in power but the initial steps as outlined in the plan will go some way towards better progress on his front with benefits along the way which will help persuade the voting public to support. Tis is quite well explained by Phil Moorhouse.
Starmer doesnât (yet) want to frighten people off too early, as I see it.
2 Likes
James OâBrien on LBC today said he thought it was too soon for Starmer to push for closer union and that first it was necessary to improve the current set up, and let people realise that even when the sh*t show is as good as it can be tailored it is still rubbish. He commented that with powerful media moguls set against any thought of rejoining it was going to be a long game.
4 Likes
Contrary to popular belief there are more than two parties in the UK.
1 Like
While it probably is too soon for Starmer to seriously push for a move closer to the EU he has categorically ruled it out - which I think is unwise.
At this point I am struggling to justify even a tactical vote for Labour - because it seems that the new boss will be the same as the old boss.
I do get that Brexit is kryptonite for Labour at the moment but Starmer is tying his hands over future policy needlessly.
Where is the gain, anyway? Demographic change (put bluntly Leavers were older on average than Remainers so are dying faster, probably of Covid) and a slow realisation that Brexit is a shambolic shitshow of disaster mean there is no longer a Leave majority in the UK (though neither is there a large Remain/Rejoin majority).
Starmerâs recent announcements will, therefore, alienate more than half the country. Meanwhile he is fighting with the Tories for the ever-shrinking pool of Leave voters - but to win in that space he needs to out Tory the Tories which he can never achieve and will put off non core Labour voters even more.
He might win on being ânot Johnsonâ if the recent swings are maintained - but Iâd be surprised if Johnson lasts to the next election and there is evidence that the Tories will âlance the boilâ by getting rid of him so Starmer might find himself up against a Tory leader who also has the advantage of being ânot Johnsonâ.
Itâs possible âthat Starmer has calculated that there isnât much lost in practice - even if it were Labour policy to rejoin the SM (TBH I donât think it is appropriate that we are ever full members again) it would take years to do so - certainly more than Labourâs next term in office.
But he has to get that term first, and I think he has misjudged how those of use who *do* want Brexit reversed will view his recent proclamation.
Surely Starmerâs recent announcement is aimed at reassuring former Labour voters in those former Red Wall seats who support Brexit, that it is safe to return to voting Labour
Personally I think it is a sell out. A âyou voted for shit and Iâll give you the best shit possibleâ position.
Good stats on the W@1 today on how the tide is turning, 50% of voters think they are worse off post Brexit, 30% donât know (
) and 20% are happy. Looks like Brexit will hit the economy by 4% in terms of GDP and productivity and only half of that has kicked in so far. All over a ÂŁ100 billion PA hit.
IMHO Labour would be better off saying it was all a big mistake and they will fix it, not just try and patch it up. Rather than trying to lick up to the deplorables bottoms in the red wall who stupidly voted leave and then compounded it with a vote for the Tories, have at them,
1 Like
The only way to start the re-joining process is to call for another referendum and to do that you need to be in power. Starmer has completely flipped his and his partyâs position on Brexit from the last election to get elected and is unlikely to flip again so for the foreseeable future the UK will just have to âmake the best of itâ.
That is the reality.
I think he has headed off the Torys suggesting he wants to rejoin - he has highlighted that Torys have made a disastrous job of it.
Perhaps if in power he can then start moving towards Europe in the future as part of working closely with EU. By which point it will be pretty obvious that it is what is needed.
This is the same as much of the government of âgoing with itâ (Truss etc) - initially I thought it was a bad move by Starmer but I think it is possibly his only option for now of going with public opinion.
Normally the (re-)joining process starts by applying to the EU. If the application is approved the UK would be granted candidate status, as Ukraine recently has been, and a long period of checks and vetting would follow. I see no reason to suppose that the UK would be fast tracked, in fact I see serious questions ranging from workers right, trade deals right through to the state of democracy in the UK right now.
So the re-joining process could be very long, and I think the UK desperately needs to mitigate the damage during that period. So I think it is right to focus on ways to do that.
It may even turn out that a good enough relationship with the EU can be established that will keep everybody happy and settle the in/out question once and for all.
I was 99% in favour of not leaving, but now I am fully behind trying to make Brexit work.
Probably, but it is misguided at best and terminal at worst.
In 2016 just 36% of Labour voters supported Leave - so, to chase that 36% of his vote he risks alienating the other 64% completely?
1 Like
Should politicians design their policies to win votes or should they design policies that are in the best interest of the country and try to bring voters onside and educate them?
Referendums alone do not heal divisions, we have seen that.
I cannot help thinking that it is not totally dissimilar, on a lower key scale, to the NI issue. You have the obstinate few who have put on the blinkers and refuse to even try to make the agreement work.
When every effort to make an agreement work has been made by both sides, in good faith, then you can say This will never work, we have tried, but now we have to revisit the agreement. But that has not been done either with the NI protocol nor with Brexit.
When Johnson has gone and rifts have healed, why can there not be a close working relationship between the EU and the UK?
The major issue for NI is that there are 3 competing issues that cannot be resolved outside EU (or Customs Union) - you can get any 2 of them to work but not the third.