Government Service Pensions - Advice Needed, Discussion and Issues Experienced


(Andrew Hough) #21

:+1: :slightly_smiling_face:

(Mandy Davies) #22

Hi Andrew

Excuse me butting in to your discussion!!

You are correct. If you move to France early 2018 (as you say in your original post) then your first tax return will be for the date you move until the 31 December 2018 and this will be due some time in May 2019. Once you are resident you will need to declare your worldwide income as well as submitting a schedule giving details of all bank accounts (and certain other investments) even if they produce no income. You can face a heavy fine if you don’t give this extra information.

Hope this helps.

(Andrew Hough) #23

Thanks Mandy, very helpful

(stella wood) #24

Phew… it is quite clear from the French Gov Site … individual newcomers arriving during year Y, declare in Y+1 their income for year Y (any such sums as they actually earned/received after arrival in France (in year Y)…

So I reckon, taking a lump sum before moving to France might/should be OK… but who knows… only the Experts…:relaxed: and it will depend on what you do with said lump sum…

(Graham Lees) #25

No Andrew, I don’t think you have it wrong. As far as I understand it if you are indeed a resident on the 1st January 2018, you will report your 2018 income in 2019 (for 2018). However, becoming resident on 2nd January 2018 (or after in that year) will mean that you will not be required to complete a tax return in 2019 (for 2018) but in 2020 for your 2019 income.

(Tony Deg) #26

We moved here part way through a year. Our French tax office instructed us to fill in the tax return the following year, but only include income from the date we moved. Given that UK and French tax years are different it is not possible to pick a date that conveniently fits with both, but it did seem rather odd to me as we ended up not paying any tax in France for that part year. We took a lump sum before we moved so it was never declared or taxed in France. Your plan of moving in Jan sounds good to me, but I think that even if you moved on say the 20th Jan, you should declare income from that date in 2019.

(Mandy Davies) #27

Hi Graham

This is not correct. See the link provided by Stella above. You have to submit a tax return for the year in which you arrive in France. If you leave the UK, for example, in February 2018 then you will need to submit a UK tax return up to the date of your departure followed by a French tax return for the period from the date you arrive until 31 December 2018. If only escaping tax was as easy as you have suggested!!

(Graham Lees) #28

Mandy, I did not suggest that you escape any tax due to either the UK or
to France. One would remain in the UK tax system until tax becomes due
in France.

That’s how it worked for us anyway.

(Andrew Hough) #29

Thanks all for the replies and experiences.

I am going to go to the local tax office in Feb 2018, (after already telling the UK authorities I am ‘Foxtrot Oscaring’ from the ‘date’) tell them the ‘date’ I arrived Fiscally, explain my circumstances, and then hopefully I should be on their system for my first tax return mid 2019.

I have read on a number of forums that my service pension (taxed at source in the UK) is also exempt from the various social charges.

Has anyone had any difficulties in this area, or any further experiences with Govt Service Pensions and social charges?

(Graham Lees) #30

None here at all. A charge was never raised which needed us to contest :smirk_cat:

(Andrew Hough) #31

:+1: Thanks

(Graham Lees) #32

de rien

(Mandy Davies) #33

Graham, the information I have given is correct. In my previous life in the UK I was a Tax Adviser.

If you cease to be UK tax resident (very specific rules apply) then you complete a tax return for the period from the previous 6 April to the date of departure. If you then become tax resident in France you complete a tax return from the date of arrival until the following 31 December.

(Graham Lees) #34

I can only bow to your superior knowledge…

(anon64861675) #35

I’ve read though all the posts, Andrew, and I don’t know how relevant my own contribution will be, or how much more your brain can stand!


My wife and I have been here just over two years. We are both retired and have State Retirement pensions and ‘Government’ (NHS) pensions. My pension income is well above the tax-free personal allowance and I pay UK tax on my total income. My total annual income from all pensions is £24,547 and I pay £2,379 tax on it in UK, after my personal tax-free allowance of £12,650 has been taken into account.

My wife’s pension is considerably less than mine, and she pays no UK tax at source.

We both registered with the French Tax authorities and disclosed all our incomes (jointly and severally, we each had to disclose our own pension incomes, but on the same form). This is because couples in France are taxed as a couple, not individually.

About six weeks ago we had a tax demand (Impot des revenus) for just under Euro 1100, based on our income 2016-2017. It was addressed to us both.

I don’t know how much your income is likely to be, but if you are at all like us, you may find your Government pension may be subject to PAYE in UK, and your total JOINT income (after UK tax has been deducted) is liable to be assessed for tax here. It seems to depend on what your total joint income is, after UK tax has been deducted (if any).

I hope this is helpful. Other are likely to comment on what I’ve described in a helpful analytic way, that’s the abiding strength of SF. Best of luck and enjoy your stay in France.

(Andrew Hough) #36

Thanks Peter, it is very helpful.
Before we reach state retirement age, we will only have our ‘govt service’ pensions as the only source of income. When we reach state pension age, if there is one then! I expect to pay tax in France on it. Until then, I suppose I could be, I’ll have to see after I speak to the tax people and submit my tax return in 2019.

:neutral_face: :wink:

(Carol Lavinia Fraser) #37

Hi Andrew, my husband’s police pension, a government pension is taxed in the UK. We then declare it on our French tax return at the end of the year together with the amount of tax paid. The French revenue will then give your a credit against your French liability. However, the downside is they only give you what your would have paid in France, which is NOT as much as you have paid in the UK. When this first hit us, I calculated that it was not worth getting agitated about it. So we pay up and look big. If you will also be in receipt of a state pension the DWP will currently issue an S! which means the UK will pay for your health care. You will be getting far superior care here in France.

(anon64861675) #38

Carol_Lavinia_Fraser I can’t disagree with you about healthcare, it’s very good here. But it’s decidedly different, For one thing, S1 or not, we have to pay up-front to see our doctor (GP). It’s Euro 25 of which we are refunded Euro 16.90 by CPAM. All precriptions require a small nominal payment over the counter with Carte Vitale.

Our lady doctor is a dear, she wears a white coat and is charming. Always greets my wife with bisous. I think she is Roumanian, many health professionals here in Normandy seem to be from Roumania.

She works single-handed and has no receptionist or practice-nurse. Getting an
appointment is hit-and-miss. She advertises her hours but is often not in her surgery. You need to look to see if her light is on in her office. Telephoning for an appoinrment is OK if she answers the phone, but leaving a voice-message is a dud. Fortunately her Cabinet is two minutes walk from our house, it’s easier for us to know her movements. If I sit in her Salle D’Acceuil she usually pops out between patients and will fix and appontment there and then. But I’ve often met old people looking for her during office hours, and in vain.

It’s all rather parish-pump, but what it delivers is very good. We have a splendid pharmacy in town and they are excellent at helping you fix appointments and dealing with urgencies. They also dispense prescriptions at lightening speed. The Cabinet d’Infirmieres is also a great resource of help, advice and support: they are very experienced nurse-practitioners, down to earth and good-humoured, and first-rate gate-keepers/sign-posters to other services.

(Mark Robbins) #39

If you have a mutuelle , then you normally pay nothing for prescription medicines.

(stella wood) #40

Oh dear… Peter… your situation sounds similar to ours of 20 years ago…when our Dr operated out of a back room behind the butcher…:wink: .but that was when he was starting out…

Eight later things improved dramatically… new surgery, telephone receptionist…and in more recent years another Doctor has been taken on as well…both Docs are rushed off their feet, but give excellent service and one or other is always available to speak with (even if only on the phone).

Perhaps your Doctor’s accessibility/reliability will improve… I do hope so…

Regarding payments… as @Mark_Robbins says…if you have Mutuelle… this pays the difference between what the Social pays and the Fees… for the Doc and for Prescriptions… As always there are exceptions… some Prescription items are NOT paid by the Social and thus the Mutuelle does NOT kick in. and of course there are the 1 euro charges deducted from every repayment (to a limit)…which the patient has to bear.

By the way… my OH has a life-threatening long-term illness and is now over 70 (poor old codger :grin:) so we don’t pay for him up-front at the Surgery or the Pharmacy…nor for anything connected with said illness… absolutely free… (yippee)…(the Social and the Mutuelle sort things out between themselves).

Being young and fit. :grin: (but.with a long-term non-life-threatening illness)… I have to pay the Doc up front…but not for the Prescriptions…(except if the Doc wants me to try something the Social do not accept…and even then it is not very expensive.)

I’ve just wondered… are you accepting the Generic medicines offered by the Pharmacy… which are cheaper alternatives to the Big Name medicines.

I believe that Folk who refuse, have to pay out of their own pocket… with no help from Social/Mutuelle… someone will correct me if I am wrong…