There are many people in the world who are neglected, rejected and with nowhere to go in this life, no fulfilment and no dreams to make real, but they don't all turn to jihad. It is just an excuse, in my mind, to turn to terrorism.
Some Brits have asked me to help in their attempts to resolve issues. I've had a house here 43 years! I am a retired architect with about 50 years experience of running a reasonably large operation in London doing literally thousands of projects for hundreds of clients, many of them very prominent people and companies. I also ran structural engineering and surveying companies. I have never practiced as an architect here in France, but during a recent dispute between neighbours I was asked to translate and formulate with the maire a written agreement. The French neighbour of the 80 year old Brit expat then completely ignored the whole of the agreement. When I dared to say that the work that had been done was not in accordance with the agreement or the norms I was roundly abused in public and indeed even on Facebook by the partner of a councillor who is the uncle of the man who ignored the agreement and brother of the Maire ajoint. The abuse incuded addressing me as "Meester zee architecte" on every sentence in a sort of demeaning way and then refusing to listen to anything at all I was saying as he said he could not understand my French! The man who ignored the agreement has the same surname as the Maire. Your remark about getting work done in the Alpes rings true as I have friends with places in the French Alpes and in Switzerland who found that there were local cartels and in fact both ended up getting people over from England to do their jobs at about half price.
Thanks Brian for the guidance on research, although your report as stated here is good enough for me to feel comfortable using that statistic.
I too like the idea of youth doing puplic service other than actual military.
Perhaps the key to Swiss comportement is based on centuries of public service.
I have seen amazing changes in rebellious youngsters after their year. Far more useful than the gap years spent boozing on Bali beaches etc.
In our family a year or two of volunteer work is a requirement for earning family funded college scholarships.
I support your nephew’s conviction that we are all responsible.
Yesterday I had a chat with the local Halal grocer. After a few minutes of sharing current events he was almost in tears as he described how hard it is for his wife and children to live each day through piercing looks of bigotry. He predicted that their life just got miserably worse.
Personally however I was astonished by the degree of kindness I received. (I am clearly a foreigner)
Such sadness afoot. I wonder if the Paris tragedy will actually bring us together in respect and gentle acceptance. There may yet be a bonus.
I'd suggest web searching, I saw the things in connection with children's rights, believe it or not, when doing background reporting for the responsible UN committee on under 18 recruitment and conscription into national service. They wanted historic background on the outcomes of young people who had combat experience. That was in 2010, so I have no exact idea what my sources were except that it was part of the briefing document several of us put together that was thoroughly checked. However, similar (and worse) happens elsewhere but US examples had been best researched.
On the idea David is suggesting, civil service (not meaning the bureaucracy) has proven to be a very good alternative to military service. One of my nephews in Switzerland has just finished and his take on what happened is interesting (he is half Algerian origin) because he thinks we bear collective responsibility for such events and should take collective actions and cease to rely on politicians whose agendas have so often led to the situations and circumstances in which this kind of thing is created. He was consigned to a team working with travelling, stateless Roma who were becoming increasingly involved in violent conflicts, it changed him from a casual, let it all happen because it isn't my business 19 year old to a more grown up, thinking 20 year old. He chose that instead of military service (one has to do one or the other for a year there, but can choose) because he hates all forms of violence and found that the principles of military training include that. Perhaps it is the road to go down, but too late this time round, there is already a generation lost.
If you had not mentioned Breton I would have thought you were my neighbor here in Alpes.
Very difficult to get work done if you are ignorant about who is who.
Also those post Sunday lunch committee meetings chez grand mere would be called parliaments in London
Come to think of it, that is what parlement is.
Perhaps this incite can guide us to want it feels like to be excluded, I.e as even third generation residents must do, plus they have their own parlement a in the banlieux etc.
Our village is really controlled by a cabal of inter related cousins and uncles and aunts most of whom have an uncanny resemblance to each other. Practically all the commune employees are in the same group. Vested intersts abound. In the main they have lived and worked in the village or vey nearby and have hardly ever travelled. The only culture of any interest is Breton and they are not interested in any serious study of that either or history. About 30 years ago a sociologist wrote a study of the village after living here incognito for a while but when it emerged that he was doing research he was chased out of town. He's now a professor in a well known university and I've met him. Some of the locals are not hesitant in expressing their dislike of "etrangers" which of course includes Brits but also people from other communes, departments or regions. Parisiens are not much loved either and only a handful turned up for the minute's silence yesterday. Must admit I was the only Brit to do so.
Apparently the prison confines is a breeding ground for jihadism which is dangerous also. The old chestnut remains 'is there an alternative to prison' for some cases ?
Inappropriate? Au contraire! Bien écrit.
We have similar conflicts in this village.
Haves and have nots.
Curious for me is that the old time residents who had nothing worth much welcomed us. But the 68ers who had come in as squatters and then welfare recipients had huge vicious resentments.
When youth are given no excuse to fail, perhaps they feel their failure more profoundly.
To Brian Milne,
I’d like to see the reports on Vietnam vets.
Also, do you have any thoughts about well-educated, third generation citizens who have also committed savage acts or directed them.
I have seen first hand the viciousness of this cadre of Uk society - think Northern Ireland.
Similar behavior is seen amongst gangs in LA, Baltimore etc.
And certainly such types exist in Europe.
It's not just the young muslims who are disaffected. Our village had a huge problem recently when a young man (18 years) came to love here in a house rented to him by a Brit from the next commune. The young man had no job and it emerged that the rent was being paid by a government agency. He rarely went out in the days. Two other youths moved in. Just over two weeks ago there was a large fracas in the street late on a Staurday evening. To cut a long story to the bone the young guys had gone into the bar carrying their own drinks and it was obvious that they were already stoked up. They were asked to leave, then told to leave. A short while later they were found urinating on the bar owner's car. An altercation ensued followed by a fight. The village boulanger was knocked down and kicked, becoming unconscious. He suffered a broken skull and other serious injuries. He's still off work. The bar owner was injured. A 70 year old man who tried to calm it down was also injured. The three young guys were arrested. The eldest has since been sentenced to 20 months in gaol plus another 10 months suspended. He has several banning orders and must undergo re-education. He may not enter the village. The other two guys are due to go before a juvenile court and they have been evicted by the English owner after I was asked to make it plain to him that they were no longer welcome in the small village (know what I mean- accidents happen?). Comments were even made to me that the problem was caused by the English renting the house to him and there had been no problems in the village until the English arrived- seriously. There is a suspicion that they were dealing in drugs; anyway they were high on whisky and something called bang which they had bought with their benefits. They had previous form. They will do their time but one feels that they are lost soulds before they even started their adulthood. This story is repeated everywhere but to a larger extent. Their only recreational activity seemed to be looking at extremely violent films or video games all day and night. Society does not seem to know how to handle that small percentage who seem intent on wreaking havoc. There is no discipline in their lives and their schools and families failed completely. Yes I believe that some national service in return for benefits would be a good idea. It would not need to be militaristic.
Lack of acceptance, lack of love, lack of being understood, isolation and nothing
to live for. This is probably why these people find their way to into extremism.
They become accepted in that world and mighty and it leads to the end of their journey.
We need to find these people before they reach this path.
I am sure that there is not enough attention paid to physcological aspects of health.
And this is a massive problem.
As you know I do not study books to gather information but I look closely and I see and
feel the problems.
In the USA more Viet Nam veterans have carried out gun crime than any other socially definable group and certainly the extremest 'nut case' white extremists and mass murderers have military, especially combat experience and psychologists believe (as sceptical as I am about trick cyclists) that all forms of conflict and war trauma sow the seeds of potential later reaction. So, national service might be exactly the wrong way to go, especially if combat ever becomes part of that conscription.
Well my dad's generation were quick to suggest National Service as a way to instill dicipline in the 'youth of today' etc but maybe that's the last thing we should be trying ?
Many of the young who turn to jihad are lost long before that happens. We see them neglected, rejected and with nowhere to go in this life, no fulfilment and no dreams to make real. The banlieus are easy to point to, but there is far more. Old prejudices must be turned round and people come to accept each other, to help each other and have the solidarity the French Revolution and those that followed in France and elsewhere always promised but failed to deliver. Perhaps not violent revolution but immense change in how we all interact and who is given privilege over others brought to an end.
Magnifiques paroles qui disent tout. C’est exactement ce que ces terroristes trouvent dérangeant. La Liberté, La Fraternité et l’Egalité! Vive la France mon Pays d’adoption mais ma nationalité de coeur!l
What you have said is quite right Jean-Louis and i'm sure everyone in the collège or lycée agrees with your sentiments but the problem is preventing just one in say, ten thousand of these lycéens (ennes) or collègiens (ennes) becoming jihadistes. Something happens to that one person as they get older. What turns a perfectly 'innocent' young adult into a terrorist ? Where does the indoctrination come from ?
I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere compared to Paris etc but one of the Charlie Hebdo terrorists spent his collège years in the local college. Apparently he was a fine 'normal' kid with no obvious leaning toward violence or subversion so what happened to him to make him into a killer ?
Do we blame parents for example ? often the easy excuse or violent movies, computer games et al.
Answers on a postcard...
Très fort, et beaucoup plus fort en émotion que ma minute de silence. J'ai fermé mon tabac à 11h50 pour aller à la mairie, j'ai dû mettre des clients dehors en leur "expliquant" ce que je faisais ! Une fois à la mairie il y avait peu de monde, la télé était là pour tout filmer, le maire a prononcé un discours mais parlait du 14 au lieu du 13 novembre. Fin bref, c'était émouvant mais rien par rapport à la vague d'émotion après Charlie Hebdo quand on était tellement nombreux, peut-être ça viendra. Malheureusement, je pense que ce n'est que le début :-(
Courage à tous !