No. We in France aren’t all about the feels. We have a moral code all right it simply isn’t a religious one. We’re talking in this particular discussion, about the impact of religion in 21st century France.
Religion has had an impact all right, in France, in the 21st century - gunning down journalists, hacking the head off a teacher - or would you say that’s not religion, because it’s not your own version of a different but equally intolerant monotheistic religion?
Frankly what we (fonctionnaires) see - coincidentally we were discussing this at lycée today - makes us think that if anything we are too tolerant of religions out and about, any of them.
Religion should remain a private matter, point barre.
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Hmm. I’m grateful for your directness and honesty.
Accepting that you are sincere (you don’t have to reciprocate!), but also noting that (as you have previously said) your moral code is based on what you think, perhaps you would be prepared to pick an application of your moral code (of your choice: for example, what we should do about refugees, or abortion, or anything else) and show how you get to what you believe is the moral approach.
To be fair to you, my suspicion is that you’ll have to smuggle in something from my faith.
Morality predates Christianity.
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Religions don’t have a monopoly of moral and ethical behaviour, and while some things might be relatively universal and can be considered good or at least harmless, they aren’t specific to any particular religion; but there’s a whole lot of accumulated hoo ha that goes with religions and we, here in France, don’t want it in public life.
I have already said at tedious length what I think about abortion, probably also what I think about refugees, and that isn’t actually the point of the conversation.
I think we may well be arguing from different premises here.
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The arrogance of that statement is stunning, to imagine that mortality can only be derived from religion.
Must religious texts can be seen as simply the codification of how to get along and survive in society but wrapped in additional woo to explain that which science couldn’t. Despite our technological progress, basic humanity hasn’t changed very much and those societal principles remain valid.
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Well, the earliest systems of Ethics predate Christianity, but there were many different approaches even in Ancient Greece. And it’s quite clear (I believe) that one can be moral and be a member of any faith (including atheism and humanism).
That was what my question was about. It seems to me that any moral code you have - as a modern liberal society - is elastic and inconsistent. You equate Christianity with superstition but - ignoring the insult (why oh why did he have to tell us to turn the other cheek and pray for those who insult us? 
) - you won’t tell me anything about the “moral code” you say you have.
I was hoping that you could pick at least one subject where you could explain why you believe what you believe, without either (as with abortion) ending up saying, “Well, it’s what I believe”, or smuggling something in from the faith that gave you and the west most of its laws and ethics!
How about you explain why religion is so marvellous and why French people in France should allow it to flourish and accept its adherents’ manifestations in public life in the 21st century?
Nobody is disputing your right to do whatever your religion requires in the privacy of your own home or in a building organised for that purpose (which is jolly nice of the Republic, they could all have been pulled down).
Go ahead. Because that’s the only justification you have, and I don’t see why your justification is any better than mine.
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Or put to a better use 
, nowadays they are a cost the towns can ill afford, a vast waste of space and very rarely used, they would be better converted into affordable housing.
Or a nice wine bar or nightclub (although I appreciate your suggestion is far more sensible). I always give a wry smile thinking of the sinful debauchery that must go on in some of the more seedy conversions, it feels like a correct response to some of the beliefs and actions of ‘the church’ both in the past and present 
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I don’t think religion - in the sense of adherence to rules - is marvellous. I think it’s boring and fruitless. Nor do I think all religions are the same, of course.
I think the Christian faith is a beautiful thing. I avoid proselytising on forums because I think it’s rude, but I will try to correct misapprehensions and ask what other people believe and how they got there, because it’s interesting.
And the question goes unanswered, yet again. This seems to be the usual modus operandi, as I saw on the abortion thread.
I see no reason to carry on a pointless discussion, so I shan’t.
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Bar my wife, I only know of one of our friends who goes to church regularly, I have never seen the doors of two of our local churches open in 10 years.
My wife is deeply religious, has a Theology Degree and went to the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago to study, I take her to church every Sunday and me and our dog have some me time together and go for a long walk through the parks in Le Mans.
But and there has to be one 
she knows I think religion is all just mumbojumbo and smoke and mirrors and one of the world’s biggest cons, the Vatican is like our UK government, it’s a power and money thing, furthering there own gains and lining their own pockets, hence we never discuss religion.
I respect her beliefs and she knows she will never change my mind and respects my position, so it’s a respect we both have for each other and just never bother bringing the subject up.
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Back to an issue made at the start of this thread, I for one am very glad that lovely old buildings are preserved and restored in France. Costs notwithstanding.
Not only the former religious building but also some rather grand old schools , train stations and post offices. Our village Mairie was a school. Always makes me smile to using the separate boys and girls doors.
I have yet to visit, if allowed, the big Jewish temple at Carpentras, said to be the loveliest in France.
The thing about preserving architecture is that it gives us somewhere to see, stand, touch and smell history. It would be a shame to lose all that because the building’s use changes with time.
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It’s a bit harsh to complain I won’t defend a position I don’t believe!
I love old buildings (and particularly temples because they tend to survive). Lots of “songez que du haut de ces pyramides quarante siècles vous contemplent” moments.
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You don’t explain what you do believe except in an elliptical way and you sedulously avoid clarification.
I have had a week of being benevolent to Bac candidates, marking the specialists’ papers, so I’m out of patience now.
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Many people say that they are spiritual, just do not subscribe to organised religion.
Opening yourself up to natural energy and something beyond the human can bring amazing rewards.
Any religion which propagates male supremacy is an abomination and the leaders of the Roman Catholic and Evangelical Christians in the USA would do well to remember just how Christ included women amongst his disciples, just not those who travelled with him for reasons that prevailed at the time.
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No offence taken!
I’m happy to provide any clarification you want. The answer always starts with love and respect, and my beliefs would probably surprise you.
Certainly he had many female followers and they get plenty of complimentary descriptions - unlike the (exclusively male) disciples, who tended to be as gaffe-prone as me.
Not wanting to put words in your mouth, but (if this is what you’re suggesting) I think any partnership between State and church is likely to end in tears, whether that’s in the US, UK or France.
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Porridge you’re in a hole, stop digging! 
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Looks lovely, where is it ?